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Nazi Flag

Discussion in 'The Pub' at netrider.net.au started by Nakkas, Oct 21, 2008.

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  1. Further to the guy flying his Australian flag in his backyard, here's that to the next level.


    I personally see no problem with this. Of course there are many people who would be offended, but I'd just think backwards, stupid and/or attention junky.

    I'm sick of people being offended by stuff like this. Yes, they did kill a lot of people, but China have killed far more people than this. You don't see people getting upset when a Chinese flag is put up. Same with the Russian.

    We had some Yanks on our street who when they moved in, erected a flag pole with Stars and Stripes.

    I think people should stop being so soft and just let people do what they want to do. Just because I'm pro flying any flag, doesn't mean I'm pro the cause.

    Who thinks it should be allowed?
  2. You're even more of a fcukwit than you've previously made out Shounak. :evil:
  3. Flags represent things.

    Chinese, Russian, Australian flags represent the people. Even if many have killed/died under the flag.

    The Nazi flag represents a regime which tried to destroy the Jewish race, take over the world etc. Flying that flag implies that mindset.
  4. You'd get along perfectly with many of my ex gf's.

    That aside, most of my jewish mates would probably just shrug it off as "dickhead" rather than get too emotionally vested.

    Topic close to your heart Doug? Are you even Jewish? Are you offended?

    edit: Above post. Yes it does represent all of the above. But it also reflects how stupid the flyer of the flag must be.

    "I may not agree with what you say, but to your death I will defend your right to say it." - Voltaire
  5. You know I've tolerated your shit for a while now frankly I'm with the others when they say you are a prize tosspot.
    No more defending you after this little piece of idiocy. :roll:
  6. Then attack my argument instead of me?

    Thanks for defending me in the past though.
  7. You have no argument.
    Don't bring this shit up again simple.

    Nazi sympathiser.
  8. Jeez you are a dickhead.

  9. Considering the fiancial turmoil and uncertain future that we are entering at the moment, the nazi flag is probably a timely reminder of what can happen when a nationalist regime takes control of the minds of the people.

    You must remember that from the start Adolf Hitler and his party appeared to be the godsend to the german people, turning around the failed economy and returning national pride and the hope for a secure future.

    The lesson to be learned is how can we identify and fight against this type of thing happening once again, if a worldwide deppression does take place.

    The communist flags of China, Nth Korea, USSR etc. all represent regimes intent on taking over the world with their ideologies and those regimes are guilty of mass genocide as were the nazi's.
  10. Ahahahah. I made it very clear that I find the Nazi message egregious. I've got pictures of me at Bahmitzvah's wearing yarmulka's, from my many Jewisih friends. Not that this means I'm not a Nazi.

    To make it clear, I don't support Nazi's. I simply support people putting up whatever flag they want to on their own property. In this case it happens to be a flag representing a horrible regime, they should still be able to fly the flag.

    As it turns out, apparently the legal system agrees with me also.

    Just because I'm for free speech does not make me a Nazy sympathiser at all. Nice twisting of the facts though.

    edit: Please don't turn this into an argument about the Nazi's being bad. That's obvious. This is more about free speech.

    I personally find many parts of Fundamentalist Islam to be reprehensible and I don't like what the burka represents. But those are my views and I respect the freedom people have to wear them.

    What people do should be upto them, provided it doesn't harm others.
  11. It's sad that in an educated age we seem only to be generating more and more stupid commentary.

    It is precisely this sort of historical revisionism that allowed Hitler to gloss over the excesses of his nation in the First World War and precipitate the Second.

    I recommend two course of action for you.

    1. Find a Jewish family, not modern and rich and 'I don't give a damn' family, but one that is old enough to remember, and ask them their opinion.

    2. Visit any one of the many Holocaust Museums in this country, and try and remain unmoved.

    If you do either or both of these and still post such tripe, then there truly is no hope for you.

    As for freedom of speech and expression, it should never be exercised outside the bounds of decency, and respect for OTHER people's freedom of speech and expression.


    *coughDavid IrvingCough*
  13. You know the swastika is acutally a peace symbol in regions of the Indian sub-continent and Persia. As usual Hitler ripped it off, just like the right arm salute . . he ripped it off the Ancient Romans.

    Yes, the swastika (in a clockwise direction) on a red and white background symbolising the Third Reich and Nazi Regime is implying a mindset and the regime beliefs. . . .
  14. Finally a decent line here. I'll ignore the ad hominem attack for now.

    But yes, there is a line, however I find proseltyzing to be far worse than openly supporting a murderous regime. The flag is saying "I'm a Nazy sympathizer", trying to convert people to your beliefs is where problems start.

    As for Jewish families, I will ask my friends parents about this and see how they feel. I have a feeling they'll just say idiots.

    To take away the freedom to express your opinion based on the potential offence caused to a group of people is crazy.

    There are people who get offended when they see a girl in a short skirt or a boob tube, should we outlaw the practice because small group of people are offended by this?

    How is flying a flag not having respect for other peoples freedom of expression? Just because one person flys a flag doesn't mean other people can't speak out against it.

    Btw, the law currently allows this.

    Do people support a law banning all flags which have killed people? Or tried to kill certain people?

    If people put up a Hutu flag, which systematically wiped out millions of Tutsi's, I doubt people would be so up in arms.
  15. you cant jump up and down screaming "i want rights & freedom" but object when someone else does something you dont like. the Americans use their flag to symbolise their freedom (and their willingness to kill others to get it) but its still flown here. This guy is just looking for attention and he got it. he is not inciting racial hatred so its in his
    "Freedom" to do so.

    you eather want a free country or you dont, you cant have it both ways
  16. I am going to start by saying I have no sympathy for those who preach bigotry, or hatred. I think that the Nazi policies of genocide towards Jews, and Gypsies and several other groups, along with there bigotry towards blacks, and Homosexuals, and the infirm, are some of the most atrocious policies ever enacted by human beings.

    I also believe in free speech, and freedom of expression.

    If we are going to stop people flying one flag but not an other, what are our criteria for defining which flags can be flown, and which can’t? Who has the right. This is an issue of censorship. If we start censoring the flags people can fly, do we then start censoring the politics they can espouse or the religion they can preach?

    After denouncing the Swastika, do we then move on to the hammer and cycle, and then the red and yellow stared flag of China, then Korea, then Iran, Iraq, … … … Then the Union jack and the star spangled Banner??? And who sais where we draw that line? Is it the death count that we use to identify a flag that should be denounced (well we better move the jack and the banner up the list then) or is it the politics they follow (And once again who has the right to judge this)

    The quote buy Nakkas of Voltaire is so very relevant here. Whether we agree with what someone else has to say, do we have the right to stop them saying it? And think of the implications when that person has power, do they have the right to stop what we want to say. I say a person should have the right to fly a Swastika. In fact I think that all Nazi sympathisers should do it. It means I will know that they are scum and I will not want to interact with them. And as much as I believe it is there right to fly it, I also believe it is my right to denounce them for flying it.

    "I may not agree with what you say, but to your death I will defend your right to say it." - Voltaire
  17. Finally a bit of common sense, or at least people who agree with me.

    I put another question to you.

    Would you support (let's assume it can be done peacefully) the introduction of democracy to China/Iran/Palestine/North Korea (or any of the rogue states?

    Most would say YES WE WOULD.

    Then when asked, "Would you support the introduction of democracy to these rogue states if the majority of people saw the USA in a bad light and this could very well lead to a democratically elected government who was not a fan of the USA?"

    That's when most people say NO.

    You either support democracy and self determination or you don't. Same with free speech. You can't support free speech only when the views offered agree with your own.

    Hopefully this is the turning point where the discussion starts getting good.
  18. This flag represents a murderous regime to many people also.


    I would find it offensive if my neighbors decided to fly it in their yard.

    Quite frankly unless you are living in a foreign embassy I can't see the reason to fly a foreign flag, a bit like boguns who love wearing west coast choppers T shirts, WTF is that all about?
  19. Word.
  20. All kinds of flags get flown around the area where I live. Not usually on flagpoles, but flown just the same. There's a good chance that some people feel the desire to spit at the sight of some of them. That's the outcome of centuries of nationalism and tribalism. There was even some fairly serious street fighting over them within local memory, but by and large people seem to have gotten the idea that a flag is not really a threat to their identity or security.

    Except this one. Because of what it says.

    The Nazi flag doesn't just say what the individual believes, or who he thinks he is. It also says, "I and my kind do not tolerate the existence of some of you. You have no right to exist and I am prepared to act on that".

    It's not just a declaration of identity - it's a direct threat.

    If this was simply a matter of free speech, then there wouldn't be an issue. But some 'speech', or messages, go beyond that into the realm of threat, incitement and action. The Nazi symbol carries all that with it by virtue of both it's history and what it continues to stand for.

    Let people say what they think, by all means, but not to the extent that their words and messages are allowed to caste a shadow over the lives of others.
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