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NSW My court case

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by UDLOSE, Jun 10, 2012.

  1. Ok the last 1.5 years of my life have been heavily taken over by this event. Ive mentioned fragments of the case over this time on NR but tried not to mention much because it was an on going case. I feel I owe it to those who I've bored with my whinging to let you know how it went.

    Basically me and my two mates were done on old road in early 2011. The cop had next to nothing on us but decided to bomb us anyway. We were all up for Driving in a manner dangerous to the public plus speed excess of 45kph. The first charge is criminal and is a 12 month disqualification, min 2,500 fine and up to 9 months prison (for first offense). His allegations were wild, his threats were frightening. I sold my bike 2 weeks later because he told me if I plead not guilty he'd "up the charge" to street racing and impound my bike (and both my mate's) indefinitely. It's a really long story..

    So the short version for me is - 4 FULL days in court plus a day off for the mention, $12,000 in legal fees later - the manner danger was dropped and the speed reduced to >20kph and I was fined $450. That's a far cry from the original charges. One of my mates got the same as me and the other was found guilty of manner but not the >45. Bare in mind the cop estimated our speed at no less than 150kph in an 80zone.

    Without our team (yes 4 barristers between us) we'd have sunk like a ship and the dodgy cop's word would've been taken.

    It cost me alot of money but I didn't want to go down for some exaggerated bullshit and have a criminal record and a serious traffic offense against my name. I think it was worth it but I'm still a long way from being happy but relieved is the word.
    • Like Like x 26
  2. So was the speed a guess from the cop, can a cop do that? Either you were going greater than 45 or you weren't.
    It sounds like the real winner was your barrister. Hopefully you didn't have to give up too much to foot the bills.
  3. That's excellent news bro. Fingers crossed the madge goes in your favour when it comes time to award costs.

    Can you give anymore detail on why the courts found in your favour?

    FTP - Wankers
  4. Thanks for sharing UDLOSE - good on you for having the persistence and stamina to see it out till the end....often the cops will wait for you to roll over and take it.

    Congrats - keep ya head down =D>=D>
  5. So if you happened to be someone who could not afford the $12K in court fees...
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Only my pride and joy Daytona 675 and several months worth of overtime :(

    Nah there won't be costs awarded because the >20 for me is the >45 reduced which means they still won afaik ](*,)

    The speed was found in my favour because we proved the cop to be unreliable in his visual estimate of our speed and his own speeds when chasing us. He threw around terms loosely (ie "they" were overtaking cars left, right and center). We had an ex highway patrol expert witness that tore strips off his methodology for estimating our speeds etc.

    I passed one car to the right in it's lane and the car had pulled to the side to wave me past, this is 500m before the twisty bits stop, I didn't even want to pass it, but you know how awkward it can be when a car insists on you passing on the hills, it's easily just to go with it. The cop said the car was intimidated and I ran it off the road and that I crossed the double white lines when passing it even though it's not clear in the video he can see things differently in real life to the video due to the lens of the camera :-s.

    The mage said she was going to drop the manner dangerous for me because the car clearly pulls to the side of the road and I passed slowly with plenty of room and that I definitely didn't cross the double line, maybe touched it briefly at best - which is the 100% truth. She said that did not constitute the criminal driving charge.:applause:

    Basically there's two parts to the incident.

    Pt 1 - cop is allegedly taking a piss in the bush in the middle of the twisties. Hears a bunch of bikes "hammering it", runs to the side of the road which none of the 7 people involved noticed. He visually estimates our speed at > 150kph while where heading away from him and takes detailed mental notes of all the bikes makes models, numberplate styles and riders then, gets in his bright orange car that's also parked in plain sight and "gives chase" at alleged speeds of up to 190kph (uphill, twisty road in a stock auto SS) in his unmarked car with no lights and sirens on, dodging in and out of motorbikes. Meanwhile the video doesn't start for about 60 secs amazingly so there's no proof he was ever where he said he was. Now for this part his speedo is hidden, he's moved the camera so you can't see the on dash speedo and for some reason the ICV has no speed overlay..

    Pt 2 - He then gets a visual on us in the distance and claims that he is not closing on us but he clearly is and his speedo is still hidden from sight. He claims to be doing 145 at the time and that's a speed check. That didn't cut it, you can't even see who is who at that point. We are stuck behind slow traffic and are just cruising along within 0-20kph over the limit, this is when he actually catches up. Once the cop gets near us he moved the camera and you can see his speed but by this point its not very riveting. You see me overtake the car I mentioned above then he puts his siren on and I quickly pull over so quick you can't even see the bike in the video. He reads out my plate and pissed off after my mate. He had overtaken us one at a time over double white lines on blind bends with his lights and siren off. He doesn't actually pull me over properly, so once he disappeared I turned around and got out of there. He came to my place 4 days later and tells me (in writing) that me my mates are "in the top 1% of craziest riders he's ever seen" and he's going to charge me with everything under the sun and that he knows the judge and threatened me not to please guilty. Actually when we turned up for the mention on the first day we plead not guilty, then when we were out the front he was doing happy laps in the same car past the court house trying to intimidate us. At this point I don't think he had correlated my mate's surname with one of the biggest criminal lawyers in the country.

    So basically everything in Pt 1 got discredited because it was his inconsistent word that had to be prooven. None of us took the stand and our interviews with him got thrown out of evidence because they were deemed to be illegal. In my case the cop said he "forgot" what was said at my house because he didn't want to leave himself open for cross examination due to all the threats he made. My mate's were deemed to be under arrest for their interviews but hadn't been read their rights. So it wasn't his word against ours it was about the DPP proving his wild statements. It came down to what could actually be proved on the video which was very little.

    Before anyone has a go at me, I was definitely speeding when I went past him the first time but nowhere near his 150kph, he was just totally making it up or "bombing" as its known in the highway patrol.

    • Like Like x 2
  7. I don't know what the laws regarding impounding bikes in sydney are but..surely there is no way in hell he can legally impound it "indefinitely"..

    Especially if it was your first offence?

    edit: I know they're trained to "estimate" speeds and its usually accepted in court cases, but how can you estimate that someone is actually going the speed you're basically guessing... something needs to be changed in the law where unless they have it on radar, it can't be proven.
  8. While I am happy to hear the magistrate had some common sense my blood is boiling it ever got to this, 12k costs for you to defend yourself against a smug bastard who lied, threatened and tried to intimidate you into pleading guilty...all while wearing a badge. ****ing arseholes!

    It's a massive bitter pill to swallow but at least it's behind you now... there really needs to be far more accountability of traffic police, this my word is law bullshit has to stop.
    • Like Like x 15
  9. This guy sounds like an Ace Fuckwit. In an ideal world _he_ would be charged with driving in a manner dangerous.

    I would be writing a very detailed letter to my MP.
  10. Glad its over and done with for you mate
  11. good to hear this, i remember taking photos of you riding your 675 down old road in December 2010 and it was defiantly what made me want to take up riding. Been following this situation loosely since it all went down so its great to hear you were able to get some justice in the end.
  12. #12 smileedude, Jun 10, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2015
    Yikes. Glad to hear it's all over.

  13. Glad it's over but the copper sounds like the type of person who got picked on in school, gets in a position of power and tries to get revenge. Arsehole.
  14. Thanks guys! Yes it's discusting how much I had to spend and I honestly thought I'd lose in the end. I just figured that if I didn't fight it I'd regret it for the rest of my life. I just wish the asshole had pulled over one of us and given us a 30 or 45 over.. In court when asked about his cowboy antics he said "I always take as many bikes as I can". When I heard the siren behind me I saw 20+ kph over and though "oh well it's my turn to get picked off", then I was shocked by what this turned into..

    If only I could show you guys the footage of this guys driving, it's sooo reckless. I don't think it's legal to post :(
  15. Oh btw I've mentioned it in another thread at some point but I'm pretty sure he's been punished internally by the cops. Between the first court date and the second he's been "promoted" to an inferior position outside of HWP. I told my cop mate and he reckons he'll be losing 20-30k per year and is certain it would be an internal, unofficial punishment. I'd like to think this case has contributed to it, I think maybe years of being a cowboy has finally caught up. Atleast he's off the road now..

    I'm so glad to be back on a bike again, I recently bought an R1 but it's depressing because it's on finance where as I bought my Daytona with my hard earned cash.
    • Like Like x 3
  16. I guess $12k is the "Price of Justice".

    Sucks but there it is, glad you can move on and not let it get to you too much......
  17. seeing that you don't have much too loose, write to your local MP and explain what happened. they might go into bat for you. its their job after all. point out you think your costs should be met as the whole thing was downgraded to a ticket. We have the Office of Police Integrity own here. Could try a complaint to your equivalent?
  18. Is there any way for you to take civil action against him personally for your court costs? Maybe MB can chime in here?
  19. I do not think so as the officer was carrying out his duties of his position at the time of the incident

    He was acting in accordance with his job description and legal capacity ( albeit badly ) at the time even though in court it was proven that it was a farce

  20. Public urination is illegal is it not ?
    • Like Like x 1