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Solved MT-07 Broken O-Rings

Discussion in 'Technical and Troubleshooting Torque' at netrider.net.au started by Mangrove, Jun 12, 2016.

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  1. 7 month old MT-07LA model with 6500 km.

    Chains been cleaned and greased every 500-700km. I have maintained chain slack to spec and to be honest after the first adjustment it's remained perfect on its own accord.



    I purchased the bike new and initially had some rather bad rattling which was serviced and mostly resolved when they replaced the chain tensioner at 1000km

    I noticed the first ring broken between 1-2000km on the dial but since then I've noticed more.

    The ride is fine but I'm new to riding/chains and so Ive got no idea if this sort of thing is a problem or normal progression for chain..?
     
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  3. Hey Mangrove, I am having a few computer issues replying to you. I'll try again
    I am up to 20,000Km on my MT-07 and have had zero issues with the chain. This is despite quite a bit of ridding on sand and gravel, that might have caused issues. I have cleaned the chain & sprokets with kero twice, and do spray oil on the inside of the chain, when it's hot and about every 1000Km. So yes you do seem to have something odd going on. I'll leave it to the old hands to sort it out with you.
     
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  4. thanks for the info carl99
     
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  5. Yeah you shouldn't have o rings popping off that soon, especially if you're vigilant cleaning and lubing it... You riding on dirt at all? Much riding in the rain? Does your bike live outside and not under a cover? Are you near the ocean? I imagine its stock chain and sprockets because you bought the bike new and only have 6500kms on, so not really sure what else to ask. I guess if you're heavy handed with the throttle and light footed with the clutch then your chain is under more stress than one that gets ridden sedately, but I can't work out why you're losing o rings like that, particularly as you seem on top of the oiling...
     
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  6. what are you cleaning it with?
     
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  7. Might have had a period when it was neglected and dried out the chain or just a defective item. Did you get this second hand.
    I have ridden bikes with more than 6-7 broken orings for more than 10,000km.

    Just need to lube the chain more frequently as it doesn't hold the grease in any more where the orings are missing and will stretch quicker due to quicker wear.

    Look out for the links with the broken rings to make sure they don't seize. Budget for a new chain when you get your next service is done.
     
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  8. You riding on dirt at all?
    > Not at all

    Much riding in the rain?
    >No, not once has it rained on me while riding.

    Does your bike live outside and not under a cover?
    >It is parked in my garage whenever it is not in use.
    >I ride for fun so it's not even parked out on the street during the day. I basically take her out for a ride and in she goes back into the garage when I'm done.

    Are you near the ocean?
    >It is visible but still quite a distance.

    I imagine its stock chain and sprockets because you bought the bike new and only have 6500kms.
    >yes all stock

    I guess if you're heavy handed with the throttle and light footed with the clutch then your chain is under more stress than one that gets ridden sedately, but I can't work out why you're losing o rings like that, particularly as you seem on top of the oilin.
    >I'm a pretty clean rider so I can't imagine it's cause I'm working her hard?

    what are you cleaning it with?
    >Motul MC Care - Chain Clean
    >Then Motul MC Care - Chain Lube - Factory Line

    Might have had a period when it was neglected and dried out the chain or just a defective item. Did you get this second hand.
    >No I purchased it brand new

    I have ridden bikes with more than 6-7 broken orings for more than 10,000km.
    Just need to lube the chain more frequently as it doesn't hold the grease in any more where the orings are missing and will stretch quicker due to quicker wear.
    >Thanks, good to know
     
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  9. "What are you cleaning it with" is my next question, but it's already been asked. A lot of people use kerosene (myself included), so if you do, remember to wash the kerosene off when you're done cleaning. I don't know how you do it but I find a quick rinse with the hose is enough to get rid of most of the residue. Dry the chain and apply the lube accordingly.
     
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  10. Yeh from day 1 I've only used Motul MC Care - Chain Clean...almost 20 bucks a can and barely does two seperate cleans.
    So I'd be a little dissapointed if it was the cleaning product at fault, which I don't think is likely.
     
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  11. Yeah fair call. For what it's worth, kerosene is WAY cheaper and people been using it for this for years without issue. Might be worth the switch, that money's far better off in your pocket than motul's.

    Also, not sure what your o ring problem is related to after all this news... Will research some more and get back to you with any useful findings
     
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  12. Hey Steve what if they are not O-Rings?
    What I described to a mate of mine.... he suggested was a broken O-ring.

    And so the question beckons...are they broken O-rings? or something else?
    Here is a picture of my chain and what looks to me to be 3 broken rubbers of some kind.
    If not rings what else could they be?
    Especially If they continue to pop up?

    image.jpg - Click to see more photos
     
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  14. Yes I noticed very early on the face of only some of the side plates were getting rusty in appearance? It's interesting that you should ask as I wondered about this earlier on in its first 2000km's.

    What is the significance of this rust?

    They do stretch like rubber but they are quite thin...
     
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  15. #15 twistngo, Jun 12, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2016
    Might be worth cleaning less and lubing more? I lube the chain every two tanks of fuel (400k ish) and clean it when it needs it, which isn't often.
    If you're spending $10 on chain cleaner every 600k it may not be cost effective unless you get a lot longer chain life. On a 30,000k chain life your spending $500? That would buy another chain and sprocket set.
     
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  16. You're not using some kind of brush when cleaning are you? Unless you're using acetone or workshop degreaser on the chain the o-rings should be lasting much longer. MUCH much longer.
     
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  17. I might add never use any cleaning method which involves pressure - a pressure washer or compressed air are the worse things you can use. Either of these will force liquids or grit beyond the seal and once it is in there, it will accelerate the wear immensely. Brushing with a stiff brush can have the same effect, pushing grit beyond the seal.

    Call me old fashioned, but I believe a conventional O-ring provides a more robust seal than X-rings in the long run due to there being no fine edges to wear. (of course this is debatable) Cleaning with a compatible solvent, like kero will keep the rubber supple whereas some light solvents, or other chemicals can cause embrittlement and cracking. If a chain is run dry, it will generate heat in the area which also hardens and embrittles the seals. External lubrication IS important, not only to keep the seals supple, but to lubricate the interface between chain and sprockets.

    If your ring seals go, (X-rings or O-rings) then your chain is doomed. Grit will enter the space between the pins and the bushes inside the chain and you will notice that your adjustment interval will begin to shorten considerably, as the wear between the pins and bushes causes the apparent "chain stretch". Your chain will wear out quickly and if you replace it before it starts to damage your sprockets, there should be no issue of a catastrophic chain failure. Many people will keep adjusting a chain to the point where the elongated chain has elongated the sprocket tooth intervals, and if they replace the chain only, the worn sprockets then put additional pressure on the new chain, and it doesn't provide the life It might - why many people replace whole sets. Chain and sprockets.

    Auto-oilers eg. Scottoilers, Pro-Oilers and others provide peace of mind and constant and consistent lubrication to this important area, extend chain and sprocket life and reduce the time spent on maintenance. I run one of these and never do more than wipe the chain and sprockets with a kero soaked rag to remove external grit, never "wash" the chain or apply a brush. There is never any rust on my chain and the rollers are always shiny. Downside is there is always a little spatter, but it is easily wiped away with a kero soaked cloth.

    No, 7 months or 6500 km is not a reasonable life for a chain
     
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  18. Rust means not enough oil.
    On outside is ok, but may also mean between plates is also rusted.

    Thin and rubber looks like broken X seals.
    Dealer may say user error...

    Chain only needs cleanlyng when gritty and grotty, more oil will keep it sort of clean by flinging off dirt.

    At worst new chain is sub $200
     
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  19. #19 Mangrove, Jun 12, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2016

    Thanks guys for all your input.

    jstavajstava
    I've been checking chain slack since my first service @1000km and the slack has remained within spec ever since and as such has not needed adjusting.
    That's 5,500 km's without needing to tighten.

    At that same time I had my first service they also fixed the dreaded mt-07 rattle which I was advised was due to a bad chain tensioner.

    I will definately keep an eye on the chain stretch.

    Does anyone know what causes the rust to appear on varying links in the chain (face side)?



    twistngotwistngo
    I did my research, spoke to the the guys at the yammy dealership and decided spending the coin on the motul product was worth it, especially considering I was just learning the ropes and looking to keep things simple but as it turns out that pricey product can't stop a manufacturer fault so yeh maybe I should just consider using kero in the future.


    Dark AngelDark Angel
    No brush, just the motul and a rag.
     
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  20. #20 Mangrove, Jun 12, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2016
    Yamaha user manual requires you to lubricate "after washing the bike or riding in the rain.
    Clean with kerosene and a soft small brush.
    To prevent damaging the o-rings do not clean with steam cleaners, high pressure washers or inapropriate solvents

    wipe drive chain dry

    thoroughly lubricate the drive chain with a special o-ring chain lubricant."

    I did everything that was required of me and was also recommended by the yamaha dealership to use the Motul cleaner and grease.

    No user error here. Only error so far was with the tensioner which may have been the cause of the problem as this didn't get resolved untill 1000km's. The rattle/tensioner problem occured the moment I purchased the bike. And so for the first 1000km's or so...the bike was running with errors.

    As It was only made clear to me yesterday that these little rubber things were probably broken o-rings I'm now concerned about the bike/chain where previously I just thought these things were getting stuck in the chain.
     
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