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VIC MRAA says let Motorcycles/Scooters use Bicycle Lanes

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by jdkarmch, Jul 6, 2006.

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  1. MRAA Media Release 6th July

    (I'm told that there is a thread that relates to this somewhere - but I can't find it - apologies Mr Moderator for posting this under as a new topic.)

    Motorcycle and Scooter Riders call for a Fair Share of the Road

    President of the Motorcycle Riders Association, Mr Dale Maggs today called for a review of lane usage and a fair share of the road for motorcycle and scooter riders. It has come to the attention of the Motorcycle Riders Association that there has recently been a move by police to deter motorcyclists from using bicycle lanes. Mr Maggs stated that although this usage is technically illegal it has generally been tolerated in the past. However there has been an upsurge in the pointless policing of this practice.

    What makes this approach truly ridiculous is that there are no real safety issues here for cyclists and even fewer for motorcycles. The actual footprints of bicycles and most motorcycles are similar and motorcycle riders are both more visible and better protected than cyclists. Shared lane usage has been recommended on several occasions but these recommendations have been totally ignored.

    Certainly the MRAA does not support motorcycles travelling at excessive speed in these lanes, but in virtually all cases the motorcycle has been travelling past congested traffic at no more than a bicycle speed of up to 30kph. We again urge government to explicitly legalise the sharing of these lanes with a maximum speed limit of 30k being placed on motorcycles and scooters.

    Since their omission from any mention in the recent transport plan, motorcycle and scooter riders have been well aware that they are neglected. This type of petty and pointless police enforcement, coupled with the continuing annual “safety” levy, makes it apparent that riders are regarded as a soft touch and an easy source of revenue for the government. The MRAA would like to point out that motorcycle and scooter usage is increasing at over twice the rate of bicycle usage and that a recent survey conducted by the MRAA showed that the ratio of motorcycles to bicycles street parked in the CBD during the day was nearly 2:1. Percentage growth in the use of powered two wheeled vehicles (especially scooters) has far outstripped the growth of usage of any other transport type and can only continue to increase given increasing congestion and fuel prices. Surely governments cannot continue to discriminate against this type of transport.

    For further information concerning this media release please contact MRAA President Mr Dale Maggs on 0432 776 458 or by email at president@mraa.org.au
  2. Re: MRA says let Motorcycles/Scooters use Bicycle Lanes

    Where is the proof that the speed has been around the 30km/h mark?
    Has there been research done?

    I doubt that motorcyclists do now or will in the future adhere to such a speed limit in these lanes.
    I would have omitted everything in that above paragraph after the "with a..."
  3. I would most likely be against a decision that would allow motorcyclists to use lanes reserved for cyclists. This is simply because, as Vic stated above, not all motorcyclists/scooters riders cannot be trusted to do above the proposed 30km/h.

    Cyclists have an unnerving enough time as it is on the road, I say keep the lanes just for them.
  4. Like I have said before bukleys chance of getting anywhere with this proposal, even though I do support it.

    You can just imagine the greenies going bloody ape dropppings over this, big bad smelly bikies running over of our children and raping our chickens. :twisted: :twisted:

    Anyway that's my rant, if the MRAA want to push it then lets get them to do it but pull it off the table to get other measures through.

    "Oh you don't like us using bike lanes but the rest of the MRAA proposal is OK?"
  5. We have the whole road available to us now! Leave the bicycle lane to the bicycles.

    Of couse it's pointless, until someone is killed or seriously injured. It is after all, only the LAW.

    No issues for cyclists, but fewer than none for motorcyclists???? What a one eyed view this is. This is from the other thread you spoke of-
    So you want to have a speed limit on one user of the bicycle lane that has a different speed limit for the cyclist? And how many motorcyclists are going to adhere to this limit? NONE!

    Proving? More bicycles are allowed inside their workplace? Was this the ad hoc survey you did yourself a few weeks ago? Perhaps you should look at the sales figures of bicycles to motorcycles?

    This is a STUPID proposal in my opinion, by a body searching for use of something that was not designed or ever intended for them. I am a motorcyclist, but would certainly side with the Govt and Bicycling Victoria in this debate.
    John, would you like me or some of the others here, riding up behind your 13yr old daughter on her way to netball? Let me answer for you, NO! HELL NO!! NO WAY!!! I think the MRA does it's credibility in proposing these sort of things that will without doubt put another road user at greater risk of injury or death.
  6. They should just ammend the existing bill, that allows you to overtake up the left (and along bike lanes) if you're turning left, to include motorcyclists splitting to the front.
    If memory serves me, you're allowed to do it for 50m. This would solve the issues in the city where blocks are quite short. It would also allow for reasonable and safe lane filtering of up to around 10 cars. Any further distances should really be done on the right anyway.
    If we can already do it if we have to make a left hand turn, what does it matter if we pull back into the centre lane?
    To that end if a copper pulls you up for doing it, that is a possible excuse. So flick on your blinker.
  7. Hmmm. No safety issues and even fewer for motorcycles... That made me blink.

    But as a motorcyclist and a cyclist I must say I have few issues with the idea. I dont use bicycle lanes on the motorbike. And have been thinking about this issue for a while. I do find the blind dislike of some motorcyclist for cyclists distressing and thats the only thing that gives me pause.

    Mr Maggs is of his his head if he thinks the bicycles parked in the city means a damm thing tho. Stupid statistic. My 5 K bike lives in my office. My 4 K 215 Kg Kat can take its chance on the street if it has too. If I go into town I am taking the motorcycle cos its less likely to get nicked. Thats the fault of poor infrastructure rather than anything else. Ask BV about the bicycle counters on main routes. The commuting bicycle boom (which I predate by many years way way beats the hell out of the scooter boom. You can get a pretty decent road bike; better than many of its riders for about a K and you can get a really good motorcycle helmet for that.

    If you limit motorcycles to 30 kph, will you let me past? If motorcycles remember they are guests then I am in favour. If its a grab for space.. Like Mr Maggs sounds like he is making I might rethink

  8. Well, the responses from the cyclists in our own midst pretty much tell the story don't they? Not much support from them. But to be fair, they would seem to perhaps be commuter cyclists and leisure motorcyclists? (maybe I'm wrong, but not sure that would adequately represent either group).
    One thing I'm pretty sure of. The MRA needs to start a dialogue with Bicycle Victoria if there is to be ANY chance of this ever happening. If they can't convince the cyclists' peak body that a shared system can work, the government certainly won't risk alienating the cyclists by doing it without BVs acquiesence. Maybe MRA could develop a code of practice that is acceptable to BV?
    OutbreakMonkey's suggestion is a dam' good one - say letting riders use the lane (or split) for the last 50m leading up to an intersection (and especially, use the advance stop line!) is probably all we ever really need. And might just be negotiable.
  9. Maggs should keep to real issues affecting motorcycle, instead of beat-up grandstanding that makes the MRA look like petty juveniles.

    Where is teh source, stats, and research for this?

    No it hasn't.

    It must be on a par with pointless press releases.

    :shock: Never mind the approach, the statement is ludicrous let alone ridiculous.

    Exactly why bicyclists have and need their own lanes. All you've done is demonstrate why motorcycles shoudn't be allowed in bicycle only lanes.

    They weren't ignored ... good reasons where given as to why.

    Totally agree with previous call .. where is the evidence and stats on this?

    Chalk up another for petty and pointless press releases.

    Where's the reasearch for that? The ABS says their is no reliable bicycle usage statistics. Far more bicycles are sold each year than motorcycles. Ride to Work day for bicycles is much larger than Ride to Work for motorcycles. Maggs should keep to real issues affecting motorcyclists, and not foolish statements.

    A poor statement intended to mislead and imply something it doesn't, and shows how the MRA will act as unscrupulously as others when it comes to twisting 'research' for their own puposes. Everyone knows the majority of bicycles in the CBD are kept/parked off street and if some real statistics are had I'm confident they would show many more bicycles enter/exit the CBD every day than motorcycles.
  10. Well, so far the majority of motorcyclists seem to be against the idea. I wonder if the MRA actually care what we think?
  11. Aside from some of the stats/facts whatever in the press release, you'd be hard pressed to argue a rational case why a motorcycle travelling at the same speed as a cycle isn't as safe.

    It's easy to say 'what if a motorcyclist doing 80kph mows down a cyclist' - or indeed dream up any kind of hypothetical situation, but that's not really productive. Mindless hypotheticals give cause to sell up your motorcycles lest you be cleaned up by a drunk driver outside your house, or indeed hit by an asteroid.

    The fact is with some common sense regulation, bike lanes could be shared by all two-wheeled vehicles (just as cars and cyclists co-exist on the open road). At the heart of it, lane filtering and bike lane usage have similar arguments - take away the bike lane, you still have powered and non-powered two wheelers filtering - either way it's legal for cyclists, both ways it's illegal for motorcyclists.

    At the end of the day, the fact that we have an engine (which believe or not has a variable capacity to produce speed!!) is often all that functionally seperates us from cyclists. But legally, we are miles behind.
  12. How did the extensive survey of 'the majority of motorcyclists' go????? :? :roll:
  13. Whilst the MRAA does do a few good things some times, it shoots itself in the foot by taking the "we are smarter than everyone else" stance and put out press releases like this one.

    If it was serious about representing riders it would consult many other motorcyclists and obtain their views rather than just the views of half a dozen board members sitting around a table eating pizzas, brainstorming.

    I dont wish this to turn into an MRAA bashing thread, far from it.
    I just hope that one day the MRAA wakes up, smells the roses, moves into the 21st century and starts consulting with a lot more people before coming up with press releases like the above that only make the majority of riders look like a pack of tosswads.

    You know we are all guilty of screaming at the Government when it makes up policy & law without consultation yet we go and do the same thing time and time again.

    Why not get a "feel" from a broad range of riders before putting together a press release like the one above?
    Are these press releases simply designed to keep the MRAA in the spotlight so the government doesnt forget about it?

    I am just stunned that this crap happens time and time again :(
  14. It was an MRA conducted survey! :LOL:

    Just going by the responses here, hence the 'so far'.

    But, let's see, I will start a poll. :wink:
  15. OK so it isn't an MRAA bashing thread, just wanted to establish that early.

    Just in case anyone is lost, the issue at hand is bikes using bike lanes.

    Err, sorry - Motorcycles using cycle lanes.

    I mean, powered two wheelers using non-powered two wheeler lanes. Noisy ones v sweaty ones. Leather v Lycra. Petrol v Biofuel. Two wheels v ... err, two wheels.

    Jeez, apart from what we wear and how we smell at the end of our trip, what's the bloody difference? It's two wheelers travelling in the same direction at similar speeds in a skinny lane!
  16. I think its all sorts of bad to be using bicycle lanes - we *can* go so much faster than bicycles and 30kph is actually quite fast. I don't think I could possibly do that on a bike since I don't ride one every day, but it doesn't mean that I never would, and it doesn't mean that I'd like some lunatic hovering 3cm behind me in the same way that a car hovers 3cm behind me on a motorbike. For all the reasons we don't like how drivers treat us, I can see why cyclists wouldn't want motorcyclists sharing that itty bitty lane.
  17. differences?

    - no 13yr old girls riding motorbikes on the way to netball practice
    - no 400kg bike and rider cyclists
    - no cyclists capable of 200kmh+
    - no rear vision on a bicycle
    - average cyclist travels between 25-40kmh on a commute or training ride. Average motorcycle travels at 50kmh or more most of the time(given a 50kmh speed limit is the minimum apart from around schools generally)

    What's funny is that years ago b4 there were bicycle lanes, motor vehicle operators were like, get 'em off our roads, they're dangerous amongst traffic. Now, we gave them their own lane to get 'em out of our hair and the MRAA wants to go wa wa wa they got their own lane, and you know what, that'd be perfect for the motorcyclists, we want to use it to.

  18. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

    That's GOLD :)

    I laughed at that one, nice.
  19. huh? That's just weird.
    how does weight affect their ability to share a lane? Should trucks and cars not share the same lane?
    Um... yeah.... :roll:
    so? are they going to travel backwards?
    Point being?

    Lots of differences, unfortunately non of them relate to the safety aspects of actually sharing a bike lane at the same speed.

    You of course realise they don't always have the luxury of bike lanes, and often integrate with other traffic. btw, those bike lanes are actually parts of the road (often formerly dual carriageways) that have been 'given over' to cyclists. With congestion spiralling, can you blame other two-wheeled vehicles for wanting to use the same real-estate?
  20. Personaly I dont see an issue in riders using bike lanes when they are UNOCCUPIED by bicycles.

    They can be used safely until they come up to a pushy rider, then if they leave that lane to pass the pushbike then re-enter that lane, no issue.

    I'm concerned that some riders will pass cyclists within a few inches scaring the crap out of them.

    I'd rather more energy be put into securing the legal use of the EL on the Tullamarine fwy and any other roadway that has an express/transit lane that excludes riders.
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