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Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by hairycucumber, Mar 22, 2007.
I see from their website that their AGM in on this Saturday (24th).
Anybody from here going?
Don't be a fool, go to the airshow instead...............
Bravo, bravo. Well played both of you. Abbott & Costello couldn't have done it better...
Suppose folks turn out for this local non-event (sorry unless you rate the MRAA above the local paint sniffing union) and aren't a paid member what will be achieved?
After Dale Maggs' stated support to consfiscate your and my motorcycle when we break the law I have neither respect nor any desire to put my money behind this well flogged dead horse.
That said, I have a freak-show attendee's facination with how the carnival may turn out so I might just attend to see if the members vote this fcuk-tard and his brethern back in.
Couldn't agree anymore with your comment, looks like they jump fences now at the MRAA, I wonder if this will be a main event on Foxtel this time.
Ringside seats are now available.
I have never been a member and never will be. I am a "scab"
I'm not in Victoria and not a part of the MRAA so by all means tell me to mind my own business and I won't argue. But I am active in the MCC of NSW that faces similar problems to what precipitated the bike confiscation saga. Sure we don't have that same law in NSW but that law is just the manifestation of a more all-encompassing mechanism that undermines riders getting a fair go throughout Australia.
I know many feel that Dale and the MRAA should always publicly be on the side of riders and many believe that what occurred after the confiscation statement was a betrayal. But don't you see that he was looking out for riders on a bigger scale. And he had to make a tough decision to do it in the manner he did. Dale seems to be doing pretty well in getting contacted whenever a motorcycling issue comes up in Victoria. Which means he is doing a good job at getting noticed. That translates into better advocacy for riders in a government/society run by non-riders.
When a rider gets clocked at a billion k's an hour and has his bike confiscated, and a reporter comes knocking on Dale's door, what is he supposed to say? If he says it is entirely wrong to take a man's(woman's) bike then regardless of the right/wrong of this statement, it will be portrayed as supporting reckless riding by the powers that be and the public in general. That is how the media will portray it because it is sensationalist media. If that happens then the MRAA becomes more marginalised and any political legitimacy that the MRAA has is eroded. You might as well lock the doors and turn the lights out because the MRAA will then be unable to make any headway at all with the non-riding establishment on things like levies, WRBs and tolls(in NSW anyway).
Riders are a minority, and an extremely marginalised minority because we have no lobbying power. We don't have a religion to cry foul of and we don't have any afflictions that can get us a foot in the door for a better deal. So if we want an organisation to make things better for us, we have to cut them some slack and understand that to get anything from people that are under no obligation(or accountability) to give us anything, we sometimes have to "tow the line" as someone put it.
He should be saying that the rider was totally in the wrong, and there are laws in place to deal with speeding, but it is wrong to take a persons possessions! That's my opinion.
Harold Scruby does a pretty good job at this too. Maybe if you're one of the chosen first points of contact by the media, that then means that all of your ideas are completely sane?
I would have preferred Dale to say that the rider messed up, but that vehicular confiscation is just one step closer to a governmental system where the separation of what possessions you own as a person vs what the government can decide to remove from you at will, is being eroded.
One has to ask oneself if this is where it stops? Will we soon see vehicular confiscation for people who rack up 12 points in 3 years?
OK. But there are other circumstances where when someone has broken the law they have their possesions or wealth taken from them. This is just a new application of an existing principle. If you do the wrong thing, you have to pay the price.
By the way, how long have the anti-speeding laws been in? 60 years? And despite being strengthened over the years, are they working? Obviously not if people are still regularly willing to do more than 45 over the limit. The miniscule minority that do this have brought this upon us by going at double the speed limit. The deterrent of losing your licence isn't enough to stop these idiots. What else can be done? Maybe the law is being applied too liberally and confiscation should only occur at greater a certain percentage over the limit eg. 50%, rather than just because the Police consider you a hoon if you are doing 15-30k's over. But I for one have no problem with someone that is caught doing double the speed limit losing their licence and their vehicle. Increased and continuing lawlessness requires a bigger stick. Everyone whinges about how soft everything is these days, well here is an example of a government getting tough on offenders.
Harold Scruby is an extreme example. The first step is to get your foot in the door by becoming the go-to guy for riders. Then it is up to a level head to try to do the best thing by the people they represent. Personally, I think Dale is doing that in context of the bigger picture.
I don't see the hoon laws as black and white as some do.
Before the hoon laws, if I was caught speeding 45kmh over the limit I would receive a fine and loss of points. This would be some weeks after the offence occurred. In the meantime, I can continue to ride/drive around at warp factor 10 with my bike/car until I am caught again.
Now, if I caught doing that, for a first offence I lose the vehicle for 48hrs. If I caught doing it again I can lose it for 3 days. Lastly, if I get caught a third time the police can apply to seize my vehicle indefinitely.
Now, because we all ride high powered bikes and like the occasional blast, we're all looking at the laws as they apply to us. After all, we're all mature people and we'd never doing anything reckless. Would we? We only speed when it's safe to do, never dangerously and always in control.
Now look at how the general population see the hoon laws being applied.
Suburban street, local idiot doing burn outs, skids, drifting and excessive speed through their neighbourhood. Under the previous laws, the most the police could do was to report the offender for whatever the offence was. For speeding, that's not much, for skidding and drifting maybe negligent driving. Not much of a deterrent. Now they can report the offender and confiscate their pride and joy for 48hrs. Get caught doing it again and it's gone for 72. Being a complete idiot and do it a third time and you may well lose the 400hp twin turbo rice burner for good.
Another thought. You happen to be unfortunate enough to live near an industrial estate. You can handle the noise during the day, but get pissed off with the incessant screeching at nights and weekends. With the hoon laws and the prospect of losing your wheels for a weekend or more, it should at least make them think twice before they let loose.
I don't know about you, but I would have thought that those with small children here (especially) would at least understand what the intent of the law was, if not the application.
As for this botherhood stuff, am I supposed to support someone riding at 105kmh in a 60kmh zone just because he's a rider? I don't really care for that person, whatever they ride/drive.
The only problem I have with the law if is there is no discretion applicable, but I think that would largely depend on how contrite you were when caught (in 100kmh zones). Honestly, if I get caught doing 150+ on a public highway, knowing the law, I don't expect sympathy. Maybe a lift home, but that's all.
BTW, Dale is a knob, but seeing as this has become an anti hoon thread...
As for the gov't taking things off us..I've been losing 50% of my income for so long I've forgotten.
This is not a hoon thread please stay on topic or ask me to split the topic and you can discuss hooning.
Yes, he is a knob...and we may want to keep somewhat on track so here is my question to MRAA members: Are you bothering to go and who are you planning to vote for and why?
Don't you have to be a financial member? How many members are there?
Gegvasco & Cejay, both exellent posts.
I don't mean to go off topic but----
150kph on the Princes between Bairnsdale and Stratford is classed as taking the bike/car for "hooning'? Not right but the rest is.
We have a industrial block nearby and yes the loud screetching etc is there. -------
Dale was quite right in what he said and his view is correct. As bike riders we should push to have the looneies among us removed.
There seems to be a problem with having ones bike taken. What about they take away your money or other goods to equal value? Would you prefer that? What about something like $100 per night in the cooler instead?. So if you are sprung doing wheelies on 1st occassion, say $2000 worth. 20 days in the cooler?
No I would rather the bike for a couple of days.
Mouth, I think votes are secret ballot. Shouldn't be devulged or asked for.
Anyone can go listen. Only members can vote. Same as any club.
I worked today so could not go. Did you? What happened?
I also missed local ride. Same reason as above.
so did the knob get voted back in?
Days later and still no news? Was the MRAA turned into a secret society at the AGM? There isn't even a press release on their web site. Either it was such a shambles they are still counting teeth and votes or they are just too ashamed to tell everyone they voted dale back in.
What would it take to get the NSW MRA active down here?
I've been trying to post something but someone keeps deleting my MRA posts.
Can't see why, this whole thread is about the AGM. If you know the positions and people voted in please just list them.