Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

QLD Motorcycle licencing changes

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by Fractalz, Jun 8, 2016.

  1. #1 Fractalz, Jun 8, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 8, 2016
    An announcement from TMR about upcoming changes to the motorcycle licencing process in Qld.
    Bit short on details but I am sure the gossip mill will provide more information as time marches on.
    The changes are supposed to come into effect from October this year so I will keep an eye out for the legislation changes.

    <Justus edit-info incl>
    Increasing safety for novice riders
    Changes to testing and licensing requirements for novice motorcycle riders will be introduced from October 2016 to ensure they have the skills and experience to ride safely on Queensland roads.

    A majority of respondents to the 2015 Motorcycle Licensing Discussion Paper: Improving Road Safety for Motorcycle Riders in Queensland supported changes to improve motorcycle safety.

    Following public consultation and a review of road safety research, crash data and practices in other jurisdictions, changes to the motorcycle licensing system will include:
    • completing a practical pre-learner course before obtaining a motorcycle learner licence
    • requiring learner riders to hold their motorcycle learner licence for at least 3 months before progressing to an RE licence
    • extending the minimum time to hold an RE licence before progressing to an R licence from 1 to 2 years
    • removing the restriction prohibiting R licence holders from carrying passengers for the first year of holding an R licence
    • increasing standardisation in the Q-Ride courses and incorporating a stronger emphasis on behaviour and higher order skills.
    Motorcycle riders and passengers are one of the most vulnerable road user groups in Queensland. In 2015 there were 54 motorcycle rider and passenger fatalities which represented 22% of the road toll, and as at 5 June 2016 there have been 22 fatalities, which represents 21.78% of the road toll.

    These changes will help to improve road safety for motorcycle riders and their passengers by better preparing novice riders and encouraging further skill development.

    Increasing safety for novice riders | Transport and motoring | Queensland Government
  2. 100% behind anything that increases skill. I could never work out why I could have a pillion on my RE's but suddenly not when I got my open. I know the power thing but I don't think it makes much difference. Except maybe easier popping wheelies and dumping the Mrs off the back :oops:
    • Funny Funny x 1
  3. Does this mean you won't need to have a supervisor in Queensland when you get your learners?
  4. OK found it - nope, still keeping the need for supervision during the learner period.
  5. Results of survey


    From the Executive summary:

    Motorcycle riders are however one of the most vulnerable road user groups and are continually over-represented in the Queensland road toll. In 2014, motorcycle rider and passenger fatalities accounted for 16.6 percent of the road toll, despite motorcycles comprising less than 5 percent of registered vehicles in Queensland. Novice motorcycle riders are especially at risk due to their lack of riding experience; crash data shows that riders in their first years of riding are involved in more crashes than riders with more years of experience.

    Still the same excuses to blame motorcyclists without addressing driver fault or training.
    The first sentence is not necessarily the fault of novice motorcyclists, or any motorcyclist for that matter.
    I'd like to know, a) how much of the 16.6 percent of MC accidents were the riders fault, b) what percentage of the 5 percent of registered vehicles are registered for road use (not conditional rego), and c) what percentage of the 16.6 percent were unlicenced/unregistered.

    Also, since you need to have held a car licence for 12 months before getting a Rider Learner licence in QLD, then for the most vulnerable age group (not verified by me, or referenced in the discussion paper) of <23, you spend another two years on P2. Under the new system, a P2 may concurrently serve their RE period, and be able to legally use a 1000cc bike at the age of 21 on an unrestricted R Open licence. And be able to carry a pillion. That to me seems like an increased risk to that age group.

    Removing the one year pillion restriction once on R O. Makes sense, but I would add an age requirement, or at the very least a curfew. There is no guarantee that any pillion trips will have been undertaken before the young age group jump on a litre bike.

    It is noted in the paper that respondents to the survey suggested drivers should receive motorcycle awareness training, but this does not seem to be addressed (wouldn't expect it to be in this section anyway), or mentioned as an area to be addressed in driver training. I won't hold my breath.

    Just my $2.50.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Some may disagree but....

    I wonder if it would be better to have restrictions lifted in stages? Considering how gutless LAMS bikes are in comparison to 1000cc sports bikes and cruisers, I don't see why they don't have a middle ground stage where the restriction is lifted to 750 or 800cc bikes and then the final stage being 1000cc+ bikes?

    The R exam in my opinion shouldn't just be a mirror of the RE exam with the difference being you're on a bigger bike. I think you should have to do an external defensive riding course at the very least and bring a certificate of attendance and competence with you on the day of your R exam.
  7. I have mixed feelings on this, as I think the current system is pretty good.
    With that said, I don't really oppose any of the changes, I thought it was already policy that when going from RE to R the pillion restriction came into effect again?

    A tiered system for progressing levels of power isn't a bad idea, but possibly it might clog the system with competent people who want superbikes?
    I went from a 250 to 1000cc super sport with no issues, but this may not be appropriate for all riders
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Unfortunately it seems apparent that you will still require a supervisor :spitoutdummy:
    Which undermines the whole purpose of having the pre-learner module :facepalm:
    as the whole point was to remove the dodgy rellies from the picture :grumpy:

    I'm quite embarrassed by this ... not to mention :banghead:
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. How does allowing inexperienced riders to carry pillions make them safer? Is someone up there drinking the bong water??
  10. First, never drink the bong water.

    Second, the pillion relaxation is for R, not RE licences. The quirk of the old system is that you had to go for an evaluation to get your REstricted licence (LAMS-Only), and you couldn't pillion on that LAMS bike for a year once you had the licence. After a year you could go for your R licence through another evaluation (exactly same test, bigger bike). After that, again you couldn't pillion on your big-person non-LAMS bike for a year (but, you could on your old LAMS bike). So I had had my bike licence for three years, could pillion on my CX500 for two of those years, and then went for my R licence and could not pillion on my CBF1000 for another year (or have a shandy at the pub either). It's that funny-silly rule they've gotten rid of.
  11. Ok. That makes more sense.
  12. It's interesting that in their results of consultation paper that 70% (p. 6) of respondents that the progression from RE to R should be a 1 year minimum (current standard) and yet they are recommending increasing this to 2 years. I wonder what their justification is?
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. They have no justification as they have no f*ing idea.
    TMR have totally missed the main points of having a pre-learner system.
    Unless Ls can ride unaccompanied this is only change for change sake without any improvement for riders .. in fact it's a step backwards.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. It still sux that you need to get your Drivers licence first and hold your P's for a year before you can even start the bike journey,I reckon its unfair if people have no interest in a car licence. :sour: I think this is the only state to do this ?:confused:
  15. Actually, it makes more sense to have it the other way around - motorbike licence first. Holding a motorbike licence first and riding for at least a year before being able to drive a car is simply the best way to build defensive driving attitudes and consideration into all road users.
  16. lol... I've had my car learners for 25 years, as I had to get it with my bike learners but never had the inclination to drive a tin top, (but I've owned a few...), so I suppose I'll keep renewing it just in case...
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. I reckon start 'em at 16 riding scooters, do a q-ride then only ride in town no highway during daylight hours.. No less safe than the pushies they ride now IMHO. and some of 'em might get a clue about road users other than themselves. Might make some people more considerate of bikes if it could we their own kid, too ( unlikely I know)
  18. That should be a LIKE Sweed (wrong button). That was how I started, but it was the other way around. I could get a motorcycle licence at 15, which was also a learners permit for a car. There was no nonsense about accompanied riding, but you had to have a licenced driver with you in the car. Young people could get mobile a year early with the motorbike option. It was attractive.

    It was a very different time and space. It was very rural, not a lot of traffic, Bikes did not have indicators or mirrors, and you were not required to wear a helmet. I only knew one person who even owned one! Motorcyclists learned fast. I never knew anyone who died and only knew one person who had broken a leg when he had an altercation with a car. What insurance? We all worked on farms and needed to get to work without assistance, were used to taking responsibility for our own safety and I actually regarded a lot of farm work to be a lot more hazardous than motorcycle riding. I don't think a lot has changed in that regard.

    It is all a case of taking responsibility for safety, first your own, then that of others.

    I very much doubt that all of that would work at all now. Drivers are protected from all by every conceivable device and believe they are safe from anything, so long as they do not travel 1 km over the posted limit, regardless of conditions, that they are only required to stop now and again and Give Way signs are only a guide. The insurance industry has figures which show motorcycle riders make fewer car claims than car only drivers - evidence that they might be better drivers. I've never seen figures which factor in km travelled. That might refute any claim. Habits are habits, however, and the increased vigilance and awareness required to ride a motorcycle must have some carry over as a habit when behind the wheel.
    • Like Like x 3
  19. Do you know if this will affect me? I wonder how the carry over works... I got my RE this Feb and would be eligible to go to my Rs next Feb. Would I have to wait another year or will I not because I started before the laws will come into effect? JustusJustus!

    Back when I was doing my car licence thing, I booked the last available appointment on the Sunshine Coast to do my practical test before the legislation changed (that was a few years ago now). I got in just before QLDers had to do a learner logbook, and before the P-Plate restrictions came into effect (did not have to do Green/Red plates, was not restricted to non-turbo/supercharged vehicles and could drive any size/capacity engine). I was pulled over for an RBT after I got into my second year P's and the police officer said I needed plates, and I explained to him that I got through before that was a requirement and he let it slide so I never worried about it.

    If I did have to wait a whole year that would seriously stuff up my plans to purchase a big bike next year. POOPAGES!
  20. According to TMR fb if you have obtained your RE before October 2016 you are under the old rules and so you can go for your R after 1 year.
    • Like Like x 1