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MotoGP and Superbikes

Discussion in 'Racing, Motorsports, and Track Days' started by TrinaG, Jul 7, 2006.

  1. Hi All :grin:

    Have a probably stoopid question...

    What is the difference between MotoGP and the Superbikes :?:
  2. About $700,000 per bike. :p
  3. Superbikes are based on production motorcycles.

    MotoGP bikes are purely prototypes and/or purpose built race bikes that are not available commercially.

    Within the rules for each class there are a lot of other variations, but in a nutshell that's the main difference.
  4. superbikes you can take your bike to the track and ride round to your preferred viewing location. motorGP you have to park in the paddock and walk across :)
  5. Well, SOME of them may be....
  6. Name me one bike in the SBK field which is not derived from a production motorcycle. The SBK rules require that all bikes that are to be raced must have been derived from a production motorcycle that is manufactured in a quantity of at least 500 units per year.

    There are the odd special dispensations given out to small boutique manufacturers (e.g. Bimota back in the day).

    If however you're arguing that the bikes that get raced bear little resemblance other than in name, frame, and shape only to the production items after all the work that gets done to them, then that's true.
  7. Foggy Petronas FPR :?: or whatever they call that aqua monstrosity! :grin:
  8. You can actually buy a Foggy Petronas, there are still a couple of hundred of them in a warehouse.

    You just can't register them here...
  9. It is a purchasable road bike.


    Go check it out. As ZRX1200R says, can't register them here.

    SBK governing body have applied the reduced boutique manufacturing limit of 100 production bikes (per year) for the FP1 to allow it to be raced, much like they did for Bimota some years back.
  10. Which hardly makes it a "production motorcycle".

    The Petronas website describes the FP1 as "..an ultimate race-derived road machine..."

    Isn't it supposed to be the other way round? ie; a road derived race machine?

    The Ducati MotoGP derived road bike that was announced recently would qualify in the same vein.

    So, what happens if Ducati decides that now that it's sold 100 of these models that it too would qualify as a "superbike" and start racing MotoGP based bikes against road bikes like R1s, ZX10s and the like?
  11. that rd legal FP1 looks hot as
    i wnat one
  12. Go read some marketing literature from the Jap 4. They all say the same sort of thing. "Race bred", blah, blah, and so on.

    Ducati is a large enough motorcycle manufacturer that it would have to make 500 bikes/year to qualify for WSBK homologation.

    WSBK rules dictate 500 bikes to qualify for any large-scale mike manufacturer, with option to reduce this limit to 100 bikes/year at the governing body's discretion. Highly unlikely that in Ducati's case that they'd allow Ducati to be making less than 500 bikes/year.

    Still, if Ducati did start making 500 of those bikes/year, then yeah, they probably could race them if they wanted to, as then it now qualifies as a production motorcycle, and if what they race deviates from what is being sold (outside of the list of allowable race modifications), then Ducati could no longer put the bike on the grid.

    Even better, if Ducati did put the Desmosedici onto the WSBK grid, this would then cause the Jap 4 to play catch up with the marketplace buyer being the winner. Imagine being able to buy what would effectively be the near equivalent of a present WSBK bike, for the mass-market produced price that the Jap 4 could do it for.
  13. Just because you can't register it here (Being in Australia) doesn't mean you can't get them registered somewhere in the world.

    Keep going with that attitude and someone will accuse you of being American
  14. I disagree. Consumers will never be the winners if they can't afford them!

    It would be no problem at all for the Jap 4 to produce bikes to rival the Desmosedici, but this level of technology presently comes at a huge cost, even for the large factories.
  15. Ducati have announced that when full scale production of the Desmosedici starts up, they will only be producing 1 motorcycle per day. Which still falls well short of the 500/yr units required for WSBK.

    And sure, if the numbers were correct, the Desmosedici probably would fit the rules and could be entered. But do Ducati really need to? Have a quick look at where their bikes fit into this years championship and get back to me :wink:

    Cammo - How many people do you think will be able to afford Desmosedici's? Ducati havent done it cheaply, so why does that mean the Big 4 should?
    While you might not be able to get a MotoGP replica for $20k, much of the technology developed for racing filters down into todays 'road'* bikes anyway. So the consumer always wins.

    *I say 'road' bikes because the current crop of 600/1000cc machines are little more than race machines with headlights and a numberplate.
  16. I wrote that the Jap 4 wouldn't be able to produce them cheaply, exactly as Ducati haven't been able to.
  17. Ok, I thought you were trying to convey that if the Big 4 were to build bikes equal to the Desmosedici, they should do it at a price that more people could afford.
  18. If they did produce 'specials' such as this, I'm not sure that the Jap 4 would be able to sell them as easily as Ducati is (I recently read that all of the 2007 Desmosedici North American allocation has been sold!).

    Ducati seems to have that niche/specialist market well catered for, where as purists of the Jap 4 brands are not willing to spend such big bucks perhaps.

    Sometimes it seems that if Ducati brought out a loaf of bread, limited production to 200 worldwide and charged a fortune for it, it would sell!
  19. When you quote someone with the intent of responding to what the person's talking about, at least get it right.

    I was refering to the advertising blurb on Petronas' own website where it stated that it's a race derived bike. It's s'posed to be the other way around.

    As for comments by others regarding the Japs homologating and then racing MotoGP variants, yeah, right. I can't imagine that any of them would be selling enough of them to make them either affordable to the mass market, which is what the concept of Superbike racing is about, or, just like what Ducati does now, has 3 or 4 variants, most of which are not available to you or I. Just like Yamaha's R7. I never saw one of them here in Oz when they were being raced, other than on the track.

    Go back a few years to touring car racing's Group A. More or less the same thing. Except in larger numbers. Jim Richards and Dick Johnson were flogging the rest of the field in cars that were unavailable here in Oz. Or if they were, cost upwards of $100,000 in 1990 dollars. At least, back then, the Brock/HSV specials were halfway affordable.

    Ditto today with WSBK. Ducati's cheapest 999 is expensive. It has very little in common with the bike that Lanzi and Bayliss race. And the other Ducati riders in WSBK do not have access to the same hardware, either.

    At least I can go out and buy an R1 or GSXR-1000 knowing that it shares the major bits of the race bikes, including engine internals. AND I can afford one.

    I wonder how successful Ducati would be if Bayliss had to race the road version, albeit with similar after market goodies as what the Jap bikes run, and WITHOUT factory support.
  20. Do i point out that if that was a reference to the similarities between the R1 and M1, there aren't bloody many other than it starts with a 'Yam', and ends with an 'aha!' Although the rumour mill has been turning and whispers that the 2007 R1 will have a 'Moto-GP derived' :jerk: 4 valve per cylinder head aswell as a few other step downs from Yamaha.