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NSW More cheese cutters for NSW?

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by HeezaGeeza, Jan 5, 2013.

  1. Article in SMH today.
    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/barriers-...d-to-safety-20130104-2c8u7.html#ixzz2H3dgz1qv

    Of particular note:

    "Since 1998, Sweden has pursued a ''Vision Zero'' target of no fatal road accidents. The country has not hit the target, but it has had great success in trying to get there, in particular by erecting strong cords of wire rope to keep motorists within a lane.

    The idea behind wire rope, which is also used on some NSW roads, is that it helps guide a car back into position if, through falling asleep or misadventure, the driver starts to steer their car out of the lane.

    An Austroads analysis of wire rope barriers at three sites on the Pacific Highway from Byron Bay to Macksville between 2003 and 2006 found casualties ''fell appreciably'' where the wire ropes were installed.

    A more detailed Victorian study by researchers at the Monash University Accident Research Centre of about 100 kilometres of barrier in the state showed the chance of serious crashes more than halved when the ropes were installed.

    In Sweden, estimates of their efficiency are up to 90 per cent. ''From the top of my head, I don't think we've had a fatality for vehicle on vehicle in any of the area where we've got the wire ropes,'' Gay says. He will roll out more wire rope this year, but says he is constrained by its cost. ''They are very dear, about $300 to $400 a metre. We haven't got that money to spare, so we are using them in the worst places on the black spots,'' he says."

    Notice the statement " from memory we have never had a vehicle on vehicle fatality in any of the area where we've got wire ropes". Seems a carefully chosen statement to me.

    I thought government was already aware of the risks posed to riders from these death traps?
  2. On reflection, it seems this is not the view of the government, just the 'transport' reporters opinion. Comments aren't open so can't leave a response to his ill informed view.

    Still seems that NSW government believes they are effective and are considering more in time though.

    Other than that - speed is the usual problem blah blah blah is pretty much the rest of the article.
  3. Rubbish, it's just an honest, possibly off guard, response - particularly in light of the fact that wrb were designed to minimise vehicle on vehicle collisions.
    It's fairly well known those risks have nothing to do with the cheese grater myth.
  4. Is there any data on the risk to motorcycle riders from wire barriers compared to the risk from armco or concrete barriers?
  5. Many years ago there was a WRB fatality on the ring road in Thomastown. Can't remember if it was a motorcyclist.
  6. Given the places I've seen the WRB's (straight roads or slight bends) you'd have to be a particularly inept rider to hit one.
  7. Can you explain to me how they affect 'vehicle on vehicle' collisions? the vast majority of installations that I've seen in Victoria are along the LH side of the road, between LH lane and roadside trees etc (although a few along RHS on freeway medians where there are very wide median reserves).
    Are they installed differently elsewhere?
  8. Yes. In NSW they are in the centre median strip on Tuggerah Road and on Epping Road (near Macquarie Park).
  9. The main point of them (when first being installed) was a replacement for concrete barriers on high speed roads.
    https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Bangor Bypass, Sydney New South Wales 2234&hl=en&ll=-34.022965,151.021221&spn=0.000611,0.002642&sll=-33.787565,150.788491&sspn=0.010861,0.021136&t=h&geocode=FYLa-P0dTmoACQ&hnear=Bangor Bypass, New South Wales 2234&z=19&layer=c&cbll=-34.022965,151.021221&panoid=AniVvYaRWZ9CQ5vMlAsGvw&cbp=11,105.76,,0,8.41
  10. Lots of these on the Pacific Hwy in sections between Ballina and Grafton. Mostly straight and narrowish sections.
  11. its not a surprise, nsw is so broke, and WRBs are the cheapest form of highway barrier, considering most of our motorway upgrades are outsourced to private contractors, its no surprise the cheapest option is the only option, our motorways are built with a priority on profit not safety or quality. Hence we end up with the shittiest highways in the western world.
  12. Perhaps it would be better to say nothing. They are a significantly better design than concrete and Armco.
  13. Really at the end of the day, if you fall off at such a speed that a WRB is going to cut you in half, I seriously doubt hitting anything else would be any less fatal.

    As I said previously, going by where I've seen WRB's installed you'd have to be a pretty bad rider to ever hit one.
  14. The primary cause of injury is from actually hitting the upright posts after sliding along the ropes.
  15. I understand this. How is any different from hitting a steel armco or concrete barrier, or tree for that matter? Chances are you're equally screwed.

    I have a much better solution for people. Stop falling off.
  16. #16 Ljiljan, Jan 8, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2013
    Also, our motorways are really built quite well. May be without forethought for volume, but the build quality is decent nonetheless. Likewise, the Hume, the busiest interstate in the country is of similar decent quality. Just ask _joel_. The primary issue with the rest of our highways is the population per kilometre of highway is very very low and simply isn't trafficked enough to upgrade.
    Lastly, we don't have the socialist based economic strategy that pours public (or borrowed) money into intercity/intercountry motorway building the way many European nations have.
    Ahh sorry, misunderstood.
  17. Bigger issues out there than wire rope barriers. I don't mind having protection against the mug on the other side of the road falling asleep at the wheel.
  18. Well done that man.

    The whole argument is moot if you don't fling yourself at these things at speed.
  19. #19 creampuff, Jan 8, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2013
    The Swedes use the wire rope barriers along the centre of the road, on some roads. Obvballs, this means overtaking is not possible. Being practical Swedes, they have a lot of overtaking lanes. Infact in general, in Sweden where I've seen wire rope barriers, there are a total of 3 traffic lanes for both directions, the 1-lane minimum you need plus the other lane is used for an overtaking lane, with the side and the wire rope switching over every few kilometres. Swede police also seem tolerant of exceeding the speed limit by reasonable amount incl when overtaking, which is nice.

    Typical Swedish highway with wire rope barrier:
  20. ^ Geeez they dont leave much gap between the traffic and the barrier.

    When I go down the m2 in Sydney they have them in parts in the middle but there's a decent gap with grass between the road and barrier.

    What always goes through my mind is what if someone comes across on you and bumps/forces you off the road? I just hate the I beam style of those posts, they'd tear a car open like a can opener..

    The traditional concrete barriers are very smooth, if you brushed along one there's a good chance you could keep it upright.