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Modify/Unrest. LAMS bike ..?? [nsw]

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by macason, Oct 7, 2010.

  1. So Im now the proud owner of a ER-6NL, I was curious as to my options once I have completed my "P" period in terms of removing the restriction on the bike and re-registering as a non-LAMS or what I may do or not do.

    So I send a mail to the RTA asking about what I can and cant do and essentially they answer with you cant do anything, even if Im on my full license it is not valid to remove/modify my bike ?

    Has anyone out there, removed/modified their bike to technically take it out of LAMS approved space then re-registered ? what gives ?

    he is a few tasty exerts from my mail with the helpful people at the RTA. I must stress I dont plan on doing anything until on my full licence and assuming I like the bike then I was thinking it was a good idea ....

    --- FIRST MAIL ---

    ME - Can a restricted LAMS approved motorbike have the restriction removed once the rider owner has a full license. Is it legal ? Does it need to be re-registered ? Can the LAMS restriction be readded for sale of the bike later ?

    RTA - The answer to your question with regard to the Kawasaki ER-6NL is no on all three counts:1) it cannot be derestricted 2) it cannot be reregistered as a non-LAMS bike 3) the first two answers, naturally also discount the third question as well – no it can’t it be re-restricted and on sold as a LAMS bike.

    --- NEXT MAIL ----

    ME - Sorry to bother you again, I just need a little clarification ... removing the restriction on the ER-6NL is physically possible and I would have thought this would constitute a modification of sorts much like suspension on a 4WD or improved turbo on a sports car or changing a chain ring on a motorbike or improved exhaust on a car/bike .....

    Is your answer "it cannot be derestricted" based on some legality as Im sure your aware there are plenty of people modifying both cars and bikes for performance purposes and remain street registered.

    Sorry I don't mean to be difficult, I have several friends all looking to change/modify their existing bikes once a full licence is attained and may need to caution them also that it isn't possible to modify and then register as NON-LAMS a bike that is traditionally LAMS approved if not for the modifications due to some obscure RTA restriction. Essentially if my bike does not fit the LAMS conditions for power to weight ratio but is a LAMS model is it un-registerable ?

    Thanks ...

    RTA - LAMS is a national scheme that has been agreed to by Austroads and is being progressively rolled out across Australia. For a motorcycle to be recognised as a LAM, it must be no greater than 150kW per tonne and it must also appear on the RTA list of Approved motorcycles for novice riders. Austroads uses the DOTARS Road Vehicle Descriptor data to categorise and register motorcycles. Once classified as a LAM or a non-LAM, that classification remains with the motorcycle. There is no provision to allow a motorcycle to be modified allowing it to be categorised differently after homologation. Any such process would undermine the LAM scheme.

    It is an offence for a learner or provisional rider to ride a motorcycle that does not comply with the Learner Approved Motorcycle legislation

    --- TO SUMMARISE ---

    So assuming I really like the bike and happy to keep it after Im off my P's , having it from new and really looking after it Ill have to trade in my ER-6nL for another ER-6n that will essentially be identical if I remove the restriction and get a magic marker out and colour in the L ??? Most likely Ill want something more than an ER-6n but I would have thought I would at least have the option .....
  2. Re: Modify/Unrest. LAMS bike ..??

    It will either be on the LAMS list if A: it is restricted to under 150kw/tonne or B: it is under 150 kw/tonne

    If it is restricted it will be either a physical restriction to the throttle stop if carbied or a different/reprogrammed ECU if fuel injected.

    If it's a throttle stop restriction, I'd say just remove it & be done with it (no-one will ever know), but if it's fuel injected, might be cheaper to trade the bike in.
  3. Re: Modify/Unrest. LAMS bike ..??

    Thats really the crux of it..

    Changing the system is completely possible, the bigger point is they wouldn't want people doing it in the first place - for fear that people will just buy it LAMS, derestrict and enjoy.

    Nice of them to ignore the fact that several other countries successfully allow this, or for any bike to be restricted to the appropriate power level.
  4. Re: Modify/Unrest. LAMS bike ..??

    There are a few bikes that you can do that to, the Hyosung 650 being one here in Vic.

    The problem is, once you do all the paperwork regarding the derestriction, you can't re-restrict it & sell it as LAMS.
  5. Re: Modify/Unrest. LAMS bike ..??

    That doesn't answer your question though, bloody fools. You're asking the legalities of riding it on your opens. I'm not sure there's anything they could charge you for if you left it registered as LAMS and deristricted the bike if you're not limited to riding a LAMS bike in the first place.
  6. Re: Modify/Unrest. LAMS bike ..??

    Derestrict it.
    Ride it.
    Dont let someone ride it unless theyre legally allowed to ride a non lams bike..
    When you sell it put the restrictors back in. If the new owner wants to derestrict it they will,
    And they'll find the message you wrote on the bits you put back in..
  7. Re: Modify/Unrest. LAMS bike ..??

    my mate is on his RE license yet he just took the throttle restricter out of his ninja 650RL (takes 1 minute - you just pull out one pin)

    The throttle now has more to turn and quite alot more power.

    Just do it, and dont tell anyone. If you total your bike, insurance cant really tell if you have removed it cause you can just say it might have come out during the crash. BTW i dont think insurance companies really know that much about derestrictions. This same mate had a collision lately, and the insurance company didnt bring anything up about it
  8. Re: Modify/Unrest. LAMS bike ..??

    insurance companies still calculate premiums based on cc's, an a restricted 650 costs the same to insure as an unrestricted 650. :/

    I agree with foot and sparz; if the derestriction can be reversed easily, do it and make sure you reverse it before sale.
  9. Re: Modify/Unrest. LAMS bike ..??

    My question(s) would be;
    Is the effort required to de-restrict (and ultimately re-restrict) worth it in terms of real world results? How much performance can you expect to "unleash" and will it be a) usable and, more significantly, b) noticeable?
    If the restriction amounts to little more than a throttle stop that's easily removed (six pack or less?) then who's going to know or care but if it's going to require reprogramming/replacing ECUs and what not it might be worth considering the time/cost equation.
  10. Re: Modify/Unrest. LAMS bike ..??

    for me, it was a great excuse to upgrade? :)
  11. Re: Modify/Unrest. LAMS bike ..??

    It would depend on the bike, ie if the unrestricted version has 300kw/tonne, then yes the difference would be very noticeable!

    If it had 160kw/tonne, well...

    On a carbied bike it will be usuable (unless you never rev your bike to red line)

    FI bikes will most likely require an ECU swap, I doubt they would be reprogrammable, there was a chap on here who looked into it for a GSX650F (?) & a new ECU was over 2K.
  12. Re: Modify/Unrest. LAMS bike ..??

    Thanks for the all the input guys, Im not sure what difference it will make in real world terms.... removing the restriction as far as Im aware is removing a screw in the throttle and snipping a wire (under seat), the same as the other kawa 650's on the market at the moment.

    Obviously the difference made is rather subjective but Id be interested to hear, I cant be sure but I thought I had read about other people noticing a signifcant change although like I mentioned it could all be smoke and mirrors.

    Anyone with input ? Happy to accept anecdotal evidence as proof that the bike is a billion times more powerful with the little screw taken out !!

    I specifically bought the kawa over the suz gladius becuase of the ECU swap required for Glad..... as far as Im aware no ECU shinanigans with the Kawasaki ER 6nL
  13. Re: Modify/Unrest. LAMS bike ..??

    Actually not just that it should be the easiest bike to unrestrict, I also bought it cause I think it looks like a mean transformer weapon, even though Im on my P'S I can still have a bike that looks cool

  14. Re: Modify/Unrest. LAMS bike ..??

    There's a how to on restricting that bike, remove throttle restricter and a wire that's under the seat dead simple.
  15. Re: Modify/Unrest. LAMS bike ..??

    Yeah the screw and wire was what I had read as well ..

    New exhaust is on back order as well
  16. Re: Modify/Unrest. LAMS bike ..??

    According to teh highly accurate internetz, the ER-6 specs are weight 200kg, KW 53, that's giving us 182.75kw/tonne.

    The restricted version would have to be putting out less than 44kw to be LAMS, so you'll gain around 9.5kw (12.7hp).

    I'd say it would be worthwhile. I suspect it will be an ignition retarder (the wire you cut, which may work across the board or only in a few gears, 1-3 maybe...) & the throttle restriction.

    I'd cut the wire first, see what kind of changes it nets, then do the carb de-restrict.
  17. Re: Modify/Unrest. LAMS bike ..??

    Little over 20% increase in power based on those figures minimum .... sounds good ! not sure how it will translate to usable power but I guess there is only one way to really test that
  18. Re: Modify/Unrest. LAMS bike ..??

    I thought the entire point of a LAMS scheme was to buy a bigger bike and then once off your restrictions you can de-restrict it. Upgrading without the need to buy a bigger bike. Seems like they never read what you were asking which was a bit silly :S

    Also, if it was FI couldn't you use something like a PC? or would that simply not work? Forgive the ignorance but always thought that was the case.
  19. Re: Modify/Unrest. LAMS bike ..??

    Im not sure that is the point of LAMS, I thought that the reason was that 250cc was a silly way to manage L/P platers as something like an RGV can put out a huge amount of power, the side effect of going to a power to weight model which is more correct is that lower powered or restricted bikes regardless of size (within reason "650") were now within the prescribed range of Motorbikes.

    Thats my take on how it all came about, had a friend almost kill himself on his RGV when he was a youngen and 250cc was the only restriction applied.

    All this obviously doesn't detract from the fact that once on a full license there is absolutely no provisioning from the RTA to modify or unrestrict a bike even though it would seem to be a very obvious path to take.
  20. Re: Modify/Unrest. LAMS bike ..??

    LAMS was introduced because the people in high places FINALLY got the message that engine capacity alone was a foolish and impractical way to restrict novice riders. LAMS allows the novice to build and develop skills on a manageable vehicle before upgrading to something more suiting to new found needs.
    Look at it like this.
    When you first get your drivers license you might drive a little four cylinder hatch because it's cheap to run and you don't really need the extra room. A few years down the track and the hatch no longer fits the bill as there's a child on the horizon which brings with it the accoutrements of parenthood and thus creates the need for change. You don't go to the local vehicle authority (VicRoads\RTA etc) and request permission to add extra cylinders and a bigger storage area to your existing vehicle Nope, you sell it and buy something else.
    Same with LAMS. When a bike is no longer what you need, you sell it to someone to whom it is appropriate for and buy what does suit you. Simple logic, where's the problem?