Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

Mid corner braking

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by raven, Jun 4, 2012.

  1. Did everyone have a go at practicing your mid-corner braking this summer as I suggested?...mmm...crickets...

    Well anyway, with winter upon us, it's a good time to stop it. If you get messed up over winter because you didn't practice it in summer, then hope that you don't need it.

    If you did, whether you perfected it or not, you should still be fairly aware of how your bike is going to react, which gives you a huge advantage.

    I started this thread to remind the two of you (were there more!?), that winter means cold tyres, cold road surfaces, possibly wet, moist, or mossy sections of corners...all things not conducive to any reliable grip.

    Time to put that tool back in the toolbox and leave it there.
    It's time to slow down, set up early, and if something does happen mid corner, use countersteering to dive into your escape route, to avoid the cow, car, bits of tree down, and your closed throttle to get you through.

    Of course, I know you've all been practicing your mid-corner quick direction changes ( line adjustments) as well, and that's a good thing when braking mid corner is too risky for the next 5-6 months.

    Fair warning. :)

    Oh btw... You cannot completely disregard having to use the brakes mid corner, I am just saying that wintertime is not the place for it, unless the road happens to be dry and you assume your tyres are not up to temps and therefore grip will be less than you might expect.

    You'd be pretty dumb to assume that you won't ever have to brake mid corner, but by setting up early, slowing down more to suit conditions and being ahead of the bike, you'll be able to avoid it as much as possible.
    • Like Like x 15
  2. Just something minor, you realise it is already June - which means.... spring and warmer weather is only 3 months (maybe 4 as it gets warmer in october) away!

    We have made it into winter this year with good conditions so far.
  3. .... I actually did practise... :(

    BTW, when it's a normal sunny winter's day and the road surface is totally clean, does the difference in 5-10 degrees ambient temp actually make that huge of a difference to tyre grip? Assuming the road is dry and no moss/leaves etc.
  4. Aussieak, Clemo and I did mid corner braking at the Stay Upright course a few weeks ago. New to me then, but did OK. We were suprised at the lack of basic skills of some of the other participants tho..
  5. Yes mate, the weather might be warmer, but October/November are still fairly wet months, that still have many days where road temperatures are down. Same again with tyres.

    Actually...it is more dangerous then. Riders see sunshine, hit the bends and twisties, rusty with their skills, on road surfaces that really haven't warmed up, and that are still damp and potentially slippery where trees overhang the roadway, helping to keep it damp and cold.

    Low on grip....rusty skills that take a few months to sharpen up if you like to hammer corners.
  6. If the difference in road temps is between 10-20c, there will be little difference. Better of course, but I don't think better enough.
    But if it's between 20-30c, then yes, that makes for a noticeable difference, Toadcat.
    And kudos to you for taking that practice on. I'm impressed! :) well done.

    Keep in mind also that country road twisties are often kept out of the sun by the tree canopy, which can keep the surface still a bit cold, if the ambient is in the lower 20's.

    When we aren't into full summer one has to take the grip levels based on the above, and feel it out. Ie 25 ambient, but the road has full sun on it. That's likely to be fairly good. But if it was cold overnight it may not be warm enough till midday onwards.
    A lot of variables to consider, eh. :)
  7. Well done boys! :)
    Nevertheless, use it cautiously over the colder months or fall back to lower speeds, compression braking and line changing for avoidance and escape routes, rather than trying to wash off a major amount of speed (unless you have no choice of course) then it becomes a matter of an escape route or damage mitigation to you and your bike, if you are going to hit. Aim for soft targets, and ride the bike until you part company, or cop that sudden stop impact.
  8. 5-10? Not so much. The difference is much greater than that though. Road temp has less to do with ambient temperature than it does the amount of light (photon) energy and incidence. Ie. road heats up through radiation rather than conduction/convection. Temperature differences can easily be in the 30's, back when I crashed road temp was very close to (if not below) zero (early august). It would be worth having a chat to track day freaks, at the moment they are all complaining about lack of grip due to inability to get energy in tyres (particularly road tyres).

    Also worth bearing in mind that temp in sydney is not reflective of the temperature in regional areas where you plan to ride.
  9. I'm actually a girl, but appreciate the sentiment...

    ETA: ...and the advice.
  10. Unless of course you practiced on dirt roads as well (not that I'd recommend that to a complete newbie.)
  11. When I did my full license test at Rider Bros a month ago, the instructor asked about things you can do to adjust your line mid corner. I mentioned mid corner braking/accelerating could be used, and he was vehemently against it, said never ever do it. I just rolled my eyes and got on with it
  12. I did,it was a great help.I havent crashed.
    Whoda thought you could slow down during corners.
    Thanks man,im even slower now.
  13. That's part of the problem. Sometimes, riders hit the road with info, that contradicts what someone called Raven on Netrider says.

    Who do you believe? A qualified instructor or someone on NR?

    Firstly, I should say that I think the instructor isn't quite right about that specific point. However, don't dismiss them completely. Many other things they say could be perfect. :)
    I would agree that very new rider have more important stuff to focus on first. But after 6mths or so, depending on your progress, the subject becomes self evident. You are going to need to be decently accomplished at having to slow down quickly as you are going through a corner. It's not to hard to imagine why...
    I'm too fast, tree branch across half your lane, a car has broken down and there is no off-road area where they could stop, etc etc.

    At some point, you need to be comfortable with using the brakes to slow down quickly as you are cornering, or without brakes, changing your line to avoid something, or to change tragectory to dive through an escape route, when you spot one.

    So yes. It's important to consider once you've got your control skills up to snuff, and are getting out and about more often.
  14. Exxellent!...You can be our poster child, man!
  15. Oops! Sorry! :cool:
    But more kudos to you for giving it a go. Girls are a little harder to get pushing their comfort zone. Yes, i know....i'm speaking in broad generality. Eeek!
    There is a moment sometime in your future where you will be pleased that you tested yourself and became somewhat less intimidated at doing it.

    Clearly, the aim is to prevent panic and you spearing off into the trees out of control, but even if you fail to miss the obstacle, it'll be a controlled crash, at lower speed, where you might be battered and bruised, compared to serious trauma.

    Next summer, practice it regularly. Get a real feel for the forces at play and how to handle them.

    Case in point. Lh corner marked 45k. Me doing $1.10 with knee down. I was having to apply left countersteering to keep the bike tight on the corner.
    All I could see high grassy embankment a meter from my head.

    Brake light!...wtf!!. Almost instantaneously, I hit the gas and shove the rh clipon, and pull knee in, just in time to miss car by an inch. My lucky day...no cars in the opposite lane right where it happened, and by now I had got on the brakes to match the cars speeds, and squeeze in front of one in the line.

    I had intercepted a line of cars doing about 20ks, all backed up behind a logging truck fully loaded.

    Had I not done that a couple of hundred times in practice, I probably wouldn't be typing this. So I know it can pay off. :) not trying to make a big deal about it...just sayin'.
  16. A good way to practice repositioning.
    Ride in lh wheel track, and then through aggressive countersteering jump over the rh wheel track...and then back again.
    This is not a casual wander to the other side...it's a quick flick of the bars which can make the bike almost jump across to the other wheel track.

    Obviously...no cars, bikes or cops around. It's great practice for commuters when they see that house brick suddenly appear from under the car in front.
  17. Thanks Raven.

    And we've met at Saturday practice. We were talking about work injuries b/c my late other half had been injured at work.
  18. Lol!...Gawd!!...I never made the connection. Thank you for kick-starting my brain. I take a shed load of drugs, and I'm generally less sharp than I used to be...as you no doubt encountered with your ex.

    You may need to kick-start me again some time. Gawd!
  19. No worries Raven; yes been there done that.
  20. With very good reasons to back it up too.

    I may have missed something. Why in the name of the Father, Son and Spirit are we suggesting braking mid corner in preference to changing line in order to avoid on obstacle?