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[MEL]Filtering collision 23/Feb/2011

Discussion in 'Your Near Misses - A Place to Vent' at netrider.net.au started by chopobo, Feb 25, 2011.

  1. Hi all,

    Had a collision with a Honda Accord on Wednesday on my normal route home.

    Was traveling down King st and turned left to get onto the ramp to go into the tunnel. The ramp is two lanes which merges together.
    Most bikers ride up the middle of the lanes as traffic banks up due to the ramp signal lights.

    As I was riding up the side of one of the lanes, at the fork join of both lanes, the Honda accord next to me swerves out and sticks his nose out, in an attempt to get to the other lane. At the time I saw both lanes banked up and saw no opportunities for the cars to change lanes so rode through.

    I was at his passenger door at that stage, and had no room to swerve out of the way or brake(was doing about 40km).
    Front wheel smacked his left fender and bumper. Bike and myself immediatedly dropped on the left side, leaving the bike sprawled in between both lanes and myself landing on the road surface in the left lane.

    First instinct was to get up and avoid being run over. Thankfully the other cars avoided me. Few cars were nice enough to stop and ask if I was ok. Another rider stopped and helped me pick the bike back up. If you are on here, cheers and thanks for the brief assistance.

    Both me and the other driver were in shock, but details were swapped.
    Bike rear set is bent, peg snapped off. handbar is bent, tank is marked and dented. Front brake is making a funny noise under load. Engine starts though and runs. Called a mate with a trailer and took it home on the back. Not really in a ridable condition.

    The Honda Accord Euros entire front bar was snapped off with it's airbox dangling off. Other driver was blocking traffic so had to go so we left it at that to deal with later.
    Made the insurance claim through RACV and they are chasing it up with the other party.

    Later that night, the other driver looked me up and called me and apologised(does that mean he is admitting fault?) and was concerned about my well being and the bike. Apparently he is insured by CGU and works for CGU insurance.

    Just hope I'm not at fault. Even though he might have admitted fault, is it possible his insurance would feel differently due to the scenario.
  2. You are both at fault, so STFU and sort out the damage between yourselves. Even if he admits fault his insurance company will try and ream you.
  3. They work at at insurance company, regardless of who was at fault hope you achieve a positive outcome.

    You've had a misfortunate accident and no doubt feeling hurt both physically and so is your bike so wouldn't want to make you feel any worse than you already are. Below is a snippet from a netriders signature:

    "Never ride in a manner that the ONLY thing keeping you safe is other road users doing the right thing..."
  4. Who is at fault depends on whether it's a "Lane ends, merge right" road (which has a short dashed dividing line), or a "Form one lane" road (which has a normal dividing line).

    In the case of a "merge right" road it's the vehicle in the lane that's ending that has to give way to other vehicles, in a "form one lane" scenario vehicles have to give way to anyone that is further ahead of them.
  5. The way you describe it it seems you saw him coming and decided to continue...

    He 'could' be charged with failure to change lanes with safety, but it looks like you could have avoided it altogether if you hadn't decided to continue your course whatever....
  6. yeah as I feared it seems we are both at fault.

    I didnt see him coming. He was straight when I rode through. When I was next to him, he didnt hear or see me and parked his nose out. On that ramp you dont expect cars to change lanes as its a solid line.

    Happened right here where the two lanes join. I was riding up the side of the lane that joins in the middle.

  7. sorry, that's a clearer explanation :)

    leave it to the insurance vultures to sort out....
  8. If you both crossed a solid white line then yeah, you're both going to be considered at fault. One of the new laws introduced not long ago was very specific about the illegality of crossing solid white lines.
  9. really depends where you were. Were you in that "island" and he crossed the unbroken line. If so you have a stronger argument. You would argue regardless of your prior actions it was his action of crossing the unbroken line that caused the accident. Similarly if you were already across the unbroken lines.

    If you were in the same lane it depends whether you were on the right or left. If you were on his right you have a pretty good argument.

    If you were on his left then I'd say you are going to have to cop it on the chin. The rule there is the cars need to be stationary and you can only proceed if it is safe to do so. The accident itself proves it wasn't safe and the fact you admitted doing 40 suggest to me the cars were not stationary.
  10. I was on his left. In the triangle made by the two solid lines joining each other.

    So i had just reached the pointy end of the island when it happened.

    Usually when cars change lanes, they indicate for a bit and when I see this I slow down to gauge whether they will let me through or proceed with lane change.

    In this instance I'm sure he didn't indicate when he attempted to lane change or get out of his lane.

    The cars were not stationary. They were probably doing 10~20 as this ramp has signals at the end of it, so cars were inching up.

    I believe his intention was to quickly swerve into the other lane as the traffic was queue was probably shorter. And he did so without indicating, in which I know I would have picked up on.

    But yes, its an iffy. Probably both wrong.
  11. Biker: I didn't see you
    Cager: I didn't see you

    insurance: so what did you see?

    But yea on a serious note good to hear your still alive where you wearing gear and all that or did you have some road rashes?
  12. Worth noting that apologising to someone isn't admitting fault as well. You can be sorry for being involved in an accident or causing someone injury without admitting it was you who caused it, you're just sorry the other party was involved. Least you're ok though.
  13. Your on his left,
    You must give way to your right,
    I got done on it,
  14. Yeah, came out ok. Had all leathers on. Just soft tissue damage and bruises. ATGATT.
    Bad luck and live and learn I guess.
  15. There are 4 possible scenarios in an accident:

    You're insured and they're not: you pay your excess and you're SUPPOSED to get it back if the other driver is at fault AND your insurance company gets them to pay, but in reality the insurer just keeps the excess.

    They're insured and you're not: they pay their excess, and their insurance company makes you pay for everything or they sue you, even if you're not at fault. Most people pony up since court is too expensive.

    You're both insured: The insurance companies keep the respective excesses, repair each car and move on, they could not care less who was at fault

    Neither insured: Nasty letters, VCAT, court, or just let it go
  16. Not true.. Insurance companies will always attempt to recover their loss if possible. If you are 'at fault' it goes on your record, and you will drop a rating depend on your history and the claim quantum. If you are not at fault, the insurance company will recover costs incurred from the responsible third party. Won't go into detail, but I do this for a living.

    Effectively, you are at fault if you fail to prevent something from happening by reasonable and legitimate action. For example: Car A cuts off Car B. Car B slams on brakes, but manages not to hit Car A. Car C is travelling too fast and fails to brake in time and rear ends Car B. Car C is at fault, irrespective of Car A cutting off Car B.

    I'm not sure about the laws about filtering in Vic, but I'd say if you have an accident while doing it you will be at fault. If he pulled out, and you were unable to stop in time (as is my reading of your description), you're at fault. If you were filtering and the cars were moving, and he has struck your bike while attempting to nose into the next lane, I would say you are both at fault: Him for impacting you having not shoulder checked, and you because you were filtering; if you were occupying your own lane this would not be the case, and he would be at fault.

    Glad you're okay and things are getting sorted out. Better to have to claim for the bike than your skin.
  17. The way I read it, the illegal action of the OP didn't cause the accident. What the OP did wasn't quite filtering. His offence was cross unbroken line. He was however already in that postion, when the driver then crossed the unbroken line to impact with the OP. It was this latter, illegal action, by the car driver, that cause the accident, not the OPs.

    It's the same as if you were using the shoulder of the road to get past a queue of traffic and then a car crossed an unbroken line to impact you. Yes your action 3 kilometers ago was illegal, but it was the car crossing the unbroken line that cause the accident. In this case its just it isn't 3km, it's 30m.

    That's what I'd be arguing, but good luck convincing the other parties.

    Then of course the contributory negligence is likely to come into play.
  18. one of my mates is the senior vp for cgu, and he drives a honda accord. wasnt a mid-late 30s bloke, bit fat with receding hair was it? ill give him a serve for ya ;)
  19. I go through there each night Chopobo, and I remember seeing that Honda Accord. It's an awkward bit of road - it crawls at peak hour as it is used heavily by people wanting to get onto Kings Way or Citylink. The tempation to filter is extreme and I have to admit this is the one and only place where I filter (ever) - otherwise it would take 10+ mins just to get from Flinders Street to the Citylink tunnel. Add in a couple of merges and a good dose of cager impatience and it's a collision just waiting to happen.