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Major corner fubar on the Black Spur

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by RGVroomDaddy, Mar 4, 2006.

  1. Had my first real scare since I started riding about 3 months ago on the black spur today.

    Going through two opposing semi-hairpins about half way through the spur. The first one is right, the second one left. Put GPR70s on the other day so was going pretty hard and exited the first turn pretty fast, causing me to scrape a peg for the first time about half way through the second which either:

    a) caused a panic reaction which made me pick the bike up OR
    b) upset the bike and put it off course away from the corner

    I am not sure which but either way it put me out on to the wrong side of the road for a good 2 seconds on the exit of the turn which fortunately for me there was nothing coming otherwise I would have been a face plant statistic.

    So I have two questions:

    1) Which is more likely a) or b) … I suspect it was a) but am wondering whether a peg scrape would generally be expected to disturb the bike without rider reaction.

    2) I assume I am doing something wrong with my body position since I was hanging off with the knee out but am surprised that my peg scraped before my knee since a zx2r has to be ridiculously low to scrape the pegs (I leaned it over when I got home to check). I think it might be because I was hanging off too much to the side rather than rotating the hips and knee forward around the tank and thus knee was more out than down. Does this sound plausible?

    Anyway, I think the real moral of the story for me is to practice this on a track not on the black spur (or yarra boulevard) but would appreciate any constructive input to my questions (you are a cockhead is not necessary since I am already aware of this but if you feel you must then so be it :oops:)

  2. The first time i hit the pegs i did a similar thing. It felt to me like i almost bounced off it. But i was on a track so it didn't really matter.

    But i find extremely easy to get the pegs down. I don't know about scraping the knees first thought. I shift my body and lean. I find sticking my knee out up sets my balance to much. Unless it is already out before i hit the corner.

    Otherwise you had a scare and got away with it. Just practice, you can still get some serious cornering through yarra blvd ;)
  3. a)

    If you do most of your riding on the road (and not the track), you'll ride better and faster without your knee out.
  4. Could be both a) and b). Depends on the bike really.

    On some bike (like mine for example) the peg feelers will dig in hard, and there have been reports where it's hard enough to lift the rear off the road and cause a low-side. I know for me that the peg feeler digging in once stepped out the rear, causing not so much a panic, but an over-correction resulting in running the bike wide.

    Pulled the peg feelers off. Never been an issue since. Touched the pegs down without the feelers at the track a few times, but since the peg base is smoother it just glides and grinds along the bitumen without upsetting the bike.

    I'm going to contradict Mouth above. Sticking one's knee out on the road is fine, so long as you understand why you're doing it. Knee out/down is all about guaging the bike's angle of lean, and if you're riding quickly on the road it allows you to detect easily the point beyond which you probably shouldn't be going past (IMO). On the road I tend to ride with my butt about a full cheek off the seat, and that works for me to detect my upper limit of street lean (tyres still have a full contact patch on the road).

    At the track, it's half-a-cheek off, and by the time the knee touches down, the pegs (sans feelers) are a fraction off from touching down too, and so this forms a different lean indicator, which tells me when parts of the bike are about to touch down.

    Sticking the knee out without actually getting it down tells me that you're not really understanding why it's done. It's not done just to stick it out and try to get it down, it's used as a riding tool.

    Get you bum back, a full cheek off the seat, and drop the inside elbow, rotate the inside ankle a bit like the ballet dancers do with that cocked leg stance, twist the knee out, and practise, practise. This also allows the bike to turn the corner quicker without being leaned over as far, giving more tyre contact patch, and therefore increased grip and safety. On the road you should be touching the knee down WAY before any part of the bike touches down, and that includes pegs with feelers on them.

    Just my 2c.
  5. don't forget that going round a corner at any speed is going to put pressure on the suspension, therefore lowering the bike again... don't forget body weight on that as well!
  6. Keep in mind the bike has alot more ground clearance when you're not sitting on it, and when cornering forces aren't compressing the suspension.
    Clearance on a ZXR250 is pretty mild when you see how much your shocks compress under hard cornering.

    My bets are on a survival reaction kicking in when the peg touched, you stood the bike up (maybe grabbed some front brake?) and ran wide.

    I've scraped pegs on my ZXR250 with and without the feelers (gpr70's also), and if you scraped it hard enough to slide the back end out the bike will point into the turn, untill it grabs the road again and nearly throws you off the top, or doesnt grab and you lowside.
  7. spongesam beat me to it :LOL:
  8. Good point, hadn't thought of that and a bump mid corner isn't going to help the line too much. When I go to the track will play with the suspension a bit. I haven't touche dthe back which is stock but I actually loosened the front off since it was a bit stiff for day to day riding.

  9. Definately didn't go brake am not that noob :p

    Although I think I throttled off a bit but this doesn't usually bother the zxr too much (do you ever do the same?)

    I believe you have a 250C which has an extra compression damp setting on the front compared with my 250A but am curious what suspension settings you have since I think you do a fair bit of track work.

    Also, the peg on mine is one piece although it has a nut on the bottom. Is the nut the "feeler"?

  10. The nut is the feeler, yes.
    Also known as "hero blobs"
  11. Am curious then what its stated purpose is and why people seem to be pulling them off?

  12. I have read pretty most of what I could get my hands on including twist of the wrist II etc. so am aware of why I should be getting the knee down, just seems I am not doing a very good job of it with the peg scraping :roll:

    I think I have got it about half right because I get a bum cheek off the seat and have the outside elbow supporting me on the tank so the bike is turning in sharper with the offset centre of gravity but I think I am too sideways instead of rotated forward a bit which is why the knee is too high (plus foot position as mentioned below). I was speaking to a friend who has done some track days and apparently it can be a common problem but as you say once corrected the knee should safely scrape before anything else.

    Will get out on the track at the next opportunity and practise in relative safety.

    Anyway, thanks to everyone who has replied, has given me some ideas to work with.

    P.S With ankle rotation I assume you mean heel inwards to get knee out?


  13. I think (not sure just mu opinion) that they are there to indicate that you are getting close to your leaning extent before you damage your pegs on scraping and scratching em.
    They are only for on road bikes not race bikes.
    People remove them for the reasons Cathar opted before.
    Having said that I've scraped centrestand/boot but never scraped footpeg.
  14. Knee-down + road is not a particularly good idea... although on the upside choosing the Black to try it is one of the safer locations (smoother surface... less likely to smash knee cap & destroy pelvis if there's a bump on the road).

    Cathar is a fairly experienced track rider, from what I understand - which is why knee-down on the road isn't difficult for him and can be used in the manner he has described for road riding.

    I am unsure of your own level of experience, but I would HIGHLY recommend heading out onto the track with a qualified instructor before trying these kind of stunts on the road. Generally, if you haven't been taught how to do it right, you'll be doing it wrong (and riding slower, as Mouth suggested). It's also FAR more dangerous to do on the road than the track, so I'd be concerned about your safety trying to get it down on the road!

    Now, after that - I'd say you touched down the peg first simply because you weren't in the right position. Touching pegs was quite easy on my 250, and has been done a few times on my 9R. Knee-down requires a lot more effort, and a serious change in attitude and riding style. :) (From riding for fun to riding like I'm a crazy mofo? :p)
  15. Dont use my suspension settings as a guide, they suit they way I ride which could be completely different from your style.

    Preload - maximum settings, the top marker.

    Compression damping - 4th setting out of 7

    rebound damping - 9th setting out of 13.

    rear shock - hardest setting 7/7

    I'm also 80kg.
  16. dude... i scrape the side kick stand on my 50cc scooter when cornering ;) scared me the first time.. now i know what it is.. it dont phase me.. tho it does unsettle the balance of the scooter.

    would hate to do it at high speed..