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LP Gas only cars?

Discussion in 'The Pub' at netrider.net.au started by undii, May 25, 2006.

  1. A friend asked the question why aren't companies producing LP Gas only cars (to help fuel problems?) and cost.



    Thought I'd pass the question here and get 'educated' people to answer :) Safety, gas tank size, etc etc? Can anyone explain why (more) LP gas/dual fuel cars aren't for sale from the factory?

    Ta
     
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  2. a couple of reasons.

    Firstly they'd need to be specifically produced for the Australian market as we are probably the major LPG gas users and therefore it's not worth it for the imported models.

    Secondly most buyers here prefer hybrids (gas/petrol ones) as you can't depend on getting LPG at some remote servos - and it gives you a great fuel range.

    Ford do a purely LPG Falcon but it doesn't sell all that well.
     
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  3. There are cars being produced with LPG factory fitted - guess the main reason why it's not more common is that it increases the price of the car. You also tend to lose a significant amount of boot space to the LPG tank, this and the fact that you lose performance are probably the main reason why it's not factory fitted to smaller cars.
     
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  4. Ford do a Gas only vehicle, called the e-Gas.

    It is $3000 more expensive to purchase but when you are saving $1 a litre it doesnt take long to recoup.

    They run a 90 litre tank and the spare wheel is moved into the boot. It is good for a range of 600km
     
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  5. why no gas on bikes??
     
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  6. Actually I believe in Europe they're now starting to produce vehicles designed to run on CNG (compressed natural gas) with some impressive results - not sure though if this technology is adaptable to LPG though.
    Edit: And as for LPG on bikes, not sure if I'd want to be sitting on a cylinder of compressed flammable gas in the event of a crash :shock:.
     
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  7. A few guys I used to know used to run their heavily modified cars on straight gas, no petrol tanks, no emission controls, no bad carbon deposits, tricked up custom converters (Vapouriser Unit) that atomize the gas for max bang, perfect gas only tuning can be achieved, results = big hp.
     
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  8. I am pretty sure gas is approximatley equivalent to 108 octane in a properly tuned engine.
    Cant remember where i saw that though :?
     
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  9. Maybe.. I drive about 2000 -3000 kms a year in my car :LOL:
     
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  10. Possibly, but the energy content is signficantly lower than that of petrol (so you need to burn more to produce the same amount of hp). Read a review recently on the LPG Falcon and seem to remember that from their figures you need to drive around 15,000kms before you start saving any money.
     
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  11. And they r the biggest POS ever built, almost as bad as a Holden :p


    Yamahapat and his workmate both drive em (company cars) and I've never heard more complaints about a new car than what I've heard from them two...


    Pat's occasionally (once every week or two) stalls when you put your foot down, it just backfires and stalls leaving you in the path of oncoming traffic when it happens while your trying to pull a right hand turn... His transmission is allready FUBAR after a year and his workmates has had just as many problems including needing 2 diff replacements in the same time...

    I used to like Fords over Holdens, I figured that if every one of the bogans I went to school with likes em, they probably aren't any good.... Now i think they both suck as bad as each other.... Aussie built cars are good for scrap metal and thats bout it...
     
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  12. As already mentioned Ford do the e-gas LPG only Falcon (it is used by a number of Taxi companies).

    Mitsubishi also used to offer a factory dual fuel Magna (not sure if they have carried that over to the new 380 but probably).

    CNG is mainly used in heavy vehicles like buses and short distance trucks and works very well. It is quieter and creates less particulates, but tends to require a larger engine in order not to get a performance loss compared to diesel.

    At this point in time axle loadings don't allow fitting a larger engine without reducing carrying capacity (which creates a commercial discincentive), so they aren't as popular as they should be...
     
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  13. I'm sitting here in our Belmont "Geelong" office and staring out the window at the gas powered company Falcon wagon I've borrowed for a few days parked outside.

    Other than it takes a few seconds longer to start, especially when stone cold, and we've lost a little bit of space in the back section for the spare wheel you'd never know it was gas powered.

    I can safely get 450km out of it but because it doesn't have the dual fuel fall back of a tank of petrol I'm not game to let it run down too far to see exactly how far it will go, after all it's very hard to get a jerry can of gas at a servo :roll:

    It also takes on average about twice as long to fill at the pump.

    Considering ULP is $1:39.9 and Gas is $0:45.9 I think it's probably worth the conversion cost.

    My previous two personel cars had factory gas systems fitted and I had no major problems and with a combined range of 1600km couldn't complain.

    As for a bike system, I cant see a reason why not, all they need to do is make a smaller version of the converter and a small enough tank to fit in place of the existing one and off you go. Obviously with the small amount of ULP bikes use already the cost of the conversion would take too long to recoup so it's just not a viable option at this stage.
     
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  14. It cost me $95 to fill the Falcon the other day! So we are gonna trade up to a e-gas BA wagon soon. I can save about $60 a tank on fuel, that will pay for the new car by itself.
     
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  15. That what happens when you drive a dinosaur...... :)
     
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  16. I'd prefer to be on a bike that you are likely to dismount and end up away from, in the event of an accident significant enough to rupture a tank. In a car, however, you would be stuck in a burning death cage.

    Either way i think the chances of them exploding is fairly slim.
     
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  17. Because LPG isn't worth it in small cars, and on a typical 6 cylinder family car you should be driving like 30,000km pa to recoup the installation cost and actually save a reasonable amount of money. From my memory, most cagers cover 15,000km or less pa.

    As there is little quality regulation and no proper standards for LPG, it won't take long before ya vaporiser unit gets clogged with all sorts of hydrocarbon wax $h!t. Most carmakers don't want to worry about warranty repairs arising from shit quality LPG and engines that are not really designed for LPG.

    I used to drive a dual fuel Holden Berlina just because my uncle, a qualified mechanic, fitted LPG w/o my consent while I was overseas. :evil: In LPG mode, that car stalled so many times...especially when making tight turns in cold mornings.

    If you are so concerned about petrol cost, get an efficient European diesel car or simply drive less.
     
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  18. Ever seen what happens when the end gets knocked off a gas cylinder? Even small tanks of inert gas can still cause a lot of damage to whatever's between them and where they want to go.
     
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  19. So I would have my money back in 1 year and then it's $3000p/a cheaper to run from there on, sounds good to me. I generally keep a car for about 5years so I will save $12000, which will just about fund the next upgrade.
     
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  20. So how many riders remain attached to their bike during a crash??

    I can see the usual uninformed scare tactics being rolled out by several members who either had a bad installation, badly tuned car or have never had a gas fitted car themselves.

    on the subject of the perceived explosion risk, a standard petrol tank is made of very thin plastic or sheet metal and the breather pipe and petrol cap seal that tank how well, but a gas tank has to be very thick to withstand the pressure inside, approved systems must have a cut off valve fitted to the tank that cuts the gas off if the power is disconnected from it and besides I've never heard of a tank exploding all by itself (someone will prove me wrong no doubt) but I've seen plenty of examples of petrol tanks going up over the years.

    Gas systems BY LAW must be checked every 10 years but petrol tanks & fuel lines can be 60 years old and never looked at.

    I've got a mate (yes, really) who swore he would never own a gas powered car until he went blue in the face. Well he did end up buying a secondhand car and it had a gas system fitted to it when he brought it and he now swears by gas, especially the price difference part........
     
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