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looking through corners

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by tehwinxor, Feb 13, 2012.

  1. On Sunday I went out for a ride to practice.

    Main problem in the past two months has been panicking on EVERY corner and overbraking, taking them slow and winding up very wide every time. That of course leads to more fail, and my ride gets tedious and un-fun quickly.

    So on Sunday I went out just to figure out what's going on, and I've found a brain-hack that appears to be working. Maybe it's a bad habit I'm learning and maybe not?

    I discovered that I was looking at either the outside edge of the turn, or trying to plot a line up the middle - keeping the eyes up, looking "through" the turn, but along the line of the outside. I think it was a "that's as far as I can go" fear-based reason for looking at that edge.

    I somehow managed to nail a few corners (after an hour out there!) and when I was going back over it in my head I realised that I had changed where I was looking. I was following (with my head/eyes) the inside line towards the corner, then after the apex tracking the long view up the inside of the corner.

    It felt like moving my focus a few degrees from the "outside" to the "inside" completely changes my reactions to a corner.

    On the way home (and to work and back today) it seems to have entirely smoothed my corners out. I was having big trouble with roundabouts, but now I'm seeing them as two very easy turns .. check the inside on the left, then the right .. and you're through! I've nailed the right-hand-turn-roundabout next to my house twice now.

    I did a lot of googling but can't find much talk about the same idea - that moving the focus to the inside of the turn and running sight up the inside rather than the outside can make such a difference.

    Thoughts? Am I learning a bad habit? Discovered a cool trick?
  2. Picture Explanation:

    Looking Outside:

    A - point at which I get scared and panic
    B - the point I think I "should" be planning to turn at
    C - the line my eye traces before the turn


    Looking Inside:
    A - the point I think "ok, cool to turn" (can see through the entire corner)
    C - the line my eye traces before the turn

    turns where I can't see the exit are really interesting -- inside and outside line tend to be incredibly close together, but for some reason watching the inside line doesn't trigger panic like watching the outside line.
  3. I just look at turn in point, then apex, then exit. Thats a big open corner. On the red one I'd be turning at your A point or maybe earlier and aiming for the apex.
  4. I'd be looking further up the road, but very interested to hear what more experienced riders think.
  5. That's the trick to it, I find - if I scan up the inside and around I can look way further through than if I look along the outside. Looking along the outside seems to make me to fixate at some point and cause a panic.

    Re-reading the cornering links :)
  6. A bit off topic, that is studley park right?

    Is it a good place to practice and learn on? I've always wanted to practice my cornering there, but there always seem to be heaps and heaps of bikes there at all hours of the day.
  7. A little secret for you - the further away you look, the more everything slows down and the faster you go. Give it a try.
    • Like Like x 1
  8. It is! And it is!

    Its limited to 50k, which is probably not enough unless you're taking it easy and working on some aspect of form. But for easy corners and lots of them I find it good enough. There's usually some kind of traffic, but whenever I wind up with a pushy car behind me I find a straight and pull over.

    It got busy with cars at 3:30 so I pulled in at the car park at the top of the hill and chatted with some other riders till it calmed down. All good fun.
  9. Exactly! You've got it, and kudos to you for working it out yourself.

    But just in case let me mention one thing.
    Do not get focussed on an inside point and allow your eyes drop too far with it as it gets closer to you. You need to keep your head (eyesight up), so as you go through a corner your eyes are moving or staying way out in front of you. Easy on a right handed due to visibility. Do the same on left ganders, but if the are fairly tigh, your vision can't physically be so far ahead. So on left ganders you will be changing your point of reference very quickly, or slow down to give yourself more time.
    Once you have perfected that, you will need concentrate on your "lines" through corners.
    If you haven't yet, read robsalvv's very good 4 part series on cornering. That's a complete and reliable roadmap for cornering. It's a sticky at the top of this forum.

    In the end you need to looking far ahead as you can and apex the shorter corners correctly, and position yourself smartly for big sweepers.

    That is where danger lies and you will activate your SR's, and get into trouble. Allow it to sweep past out of sight or in your peripheral vision, but never focus on it.

    On your rh image above your eyes should be way way down the ride, and allowing things closer to you to be lost from sight...this stuff is no longer relevant to you, so ignore it, and not be looking down just ahead of you.
    • Like Like x 2
  10. On a related note, on approach I always try to make sure I have a quick scan of the road surface in the corner before shifting my focus to my intended destination, especially if I know I'll be getting a decent lean on. Helps to save any unpleasant surprises from gravel, diesel, debris, crappy road repairs etc if I can pick a line to avoid such nasties well in advance.
  11. Yes! Good point Pat.
    Some things are obvious, others out of site until we get closer, but time is safety so the sooner (earlier) you spot a pot hole or dirt etc, the more time you have to prepare, change lines, adjust position on the bike to mitigate the threat or danger. You can't always avoid things but sometimes just realizing their presence is enough to get you by. No nasty surprises, hopefully.
  12. Agreed. Look at the point where all the lines come together - the exit to the turn. That's where you want to go, and by looking there, that's where you'll end up. The turn-in point and apex sort themselves out happily without you looking at them.

    That's what riders talk about when they say to look _through_ the corner rather than at it.

    The ingredients for a corner (any corner) are:

    1. Set your entry speed and gear beforehand.
    2. Look for your exit.
    3. Counter-steer to tip the bike late into the corner.
    4. Roll the throttle on gradually once you're at a good lean angle. You want to be rolling the throttle on well before the apex, nice and steady, to keep the bike stabilised.

    Once you're rolling the throttle on, the bike tends to stand up and exit from the corner all by itself.
  13. Look as far ahead as possible - the world moves alot slower when you do that (VS looking at the ground in front of the front wheel...lol)

    T2 at EC - looks like I'm looking at the Cameraman - didn't even realise I was doing it but point is, looking around/through the corner as much as possible so you can pick and hit your exit point...

    Again T2 but from a slightly different angle and line - I posted this as an example because of the other 2 riders in shot. Not that I am a shining example of how to ride but if you check how far my head is turned and looking through the corner VS the other 2 it is a decent example if nothing else.....

    I had a few good pics from P.Island but looks like they're missing from my photobucket :(

    • Like Like x 1
  14. Just to ad:

    Start wide, Finish tight...Start wide, Finish tight...Start wide, Finish tight...:)
    Avoiding the head on zone!

    This will open up your corners to give you more forward vision looking through the corner, more time to plan, more time to negotiate that wombat, gravel or caravan around the bend. Keep it simple and enjoy. CIBBER
  15. Good form! :)
  16. Pretty hard to fault that :). have a look at his front contact patch....His forks are done or very close to bottomed out.
    His control side is nice and loose with his balance side well perched and in form. Ready for any little slip or shake.
    And his focus is where he wants to be next !!!!!!!!!!! That's where you look with your focus. How far ahead will depend on the speed you are going.
    Your periphial vision when trained and up to speed will pick up any inconsistancies and let you know where you are on the road/track. Almost like you have two by two sets of eyes.
    When the dust settles there is only one thing seperating the Rossi's, to the Abe's to the average Jo. Focus.
  17. Hey - hopefully not too much of a hijack. On that same stretch of road, I have had some cornering Q's in my mind for the past few weeks - especially to do with where I'm looking and where my wheels actually are. It's about the big tight left hand corner, at the bottom of the hill (if your coming from Chandler HWY end, following the the freeway crossing). See pictures from the car included (1 - before corner, 2 - at beginning of turn, 3 - half way through). It seems to look super slippery, especially on hot days, and the cambre seems to lean in the incorrect direction. I've been trying to work out if I should just simply stick in the tyre tracks (which look to be the most slippery) the whole way around, and keep my eyes up, or if I should be attempting to simply go for the best line through the corner? I slow down quite a lot to ensure I do not slip, which tends to end up with cars getting too close for my liking. Anyone have thoughts - feel free to send me somewhere else if I'm hijacking!

    Attached Files:

  18. I don't know the corner.
    I would aproach it in the right hand wheel track. My focus would be where the last shadow is and the ripple strip meet at the start of the corner.
    I would stay in the right wheel track as long as I could. Till I could see right through the corner or almost.
    My instinctive turn in point would be about where the push bike riders is in the second photo.
    That's when my focus would be on the apex or inside. And it would stay inside all the way through the corner and for the first bit of the strait coming out. G forces and lack of grip are trying to puh me wide. So my eyes want to stay inside cause that's where I want to be.
    If you even sneak a peek outside you just might find yourself there real quick.
  19. Bretto has the goods on how to tackle this kind of corner.

    But since I know it, I would not want to be dealing with it too often voluntarily.

    It IS off camber...it will not provide good grip, and I would stay out of the wheel tracks and just ride the centre section at less speed.
    I've nearly come a cropper on "shinny" corners like this, too often. It fires up all of my warning bells.
    • Like Like x 1