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Lifted petrol tank, petrol dripping

Discussion in 'Technical and Troubleshooting Torque' started by dbrain, Dec 25, 2015.

  1. #1 dbrain, Dec 25, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2015
    Hey guys,

    I probably did a dumb. I have a Street Triple 660, for Christmas I received a Scottoiler (eSystem).
    Currently trying to wire it up. Anyway to run the wires from the control panel I needed to go under the petrol tank. This has some screws at the front and then lifts up.

    In the middle of this I started to smell petrol.. so got up and looked around.. turns out theres a small puddle of it sitting under my bike dripping from inside somewhere.

    I'm going to assume no, but is it normal for a bike to drip petrol if the tank is lifted?
    I feel like I may have put a bit of tension on the two tubes coming from the tank (presumably where the petrol is pumped from), the connection to the tank is fine.. any idea of the easiest way to get to the other side of this is so I can ensure I haven't loosened that?

    I feel like every time I touch the bike I break something :(


    * It doesn't drip when the tank is back in position, if that helps at all. So gravity plays some kind of factor.
  2. Have you got a full tank of juice? If so its probably coming out of the overflow.
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  3. Thanks, after unscrewing a bunch of shit I should never go near, I think you're right.
    Yep, full tank of petrol. It looks like its coming from the two gunk tubes that used to hang under the bike, which I imagine is the overflow.

    They now seem to be above the coolant tank... for some reason. Must have changed during a service, just realised when I found the source of the dripping that I hadn't seen them in ages.
    *phew* I'll make 100% sure.. and start putting stuff back together. Almost learnt how to access my front sprocket out of it all though, so that's a positive ;) (the tools I have stopped me opening the last 2 bolts, but that can be fixed).
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  4. Should be ok ,one hose is the tank breather and on a hot day or leaving bike in the sun you can see fuel vapour coming out or even an odd drip.
    The other is the tank fill overflow so if you over fill it runs down the hose and not all over the motor.
    Make sure these hoses are free and not kinked when you re assemble.
    If you follow the same path they came out they will hang out the bottom ,if you have a lazy mechanic do the service
    They may just poke them in anywhere and thus will appear to be short.
  5. Thanks, yeah definitely coming out of overflow pipes... big sigh of relief finding that out.
    Definitely have a case of the "lazy mechanic", based on some other examples. So would explain why the overflows are now a fair bit higher than they used to be.

    In other news, super glad I'm not a mechanic. This scottoiler thing is destroying me. Probably should only be a 1 hour job. Think I'm 4 hours in at this point and nowhere near complete.
  6. Neither am I, and I know exactly what you mean.

    It is worth taking one's time and being a bit anal about your installation. Do it right, do it once. One of the fundamental laws of home mechaniking for the amateur - "Any simple job will always take at least twice as long as you think it will and that time will blow out indefinitely if there are complications." Hey look at it this way, you haven't broken anything. That would put you square in the middle of forward backward land. You've learned about the overflow pipe, and now know that this is something to check whenever you disturb your tank. The time taken in pondering your leak is an investment in knowledge about your bike. Worth it. One of the things to watch out for in adding wiring is to ensure that your additional wiring is placed so that there is nothing that will pinch or rub it. It is not protected in a sheath like your main wiring loom is. It is easy to set yourself up for a failure later on if this is overlooked.

    In the final fit out of your oiler, it will pay to be very fussy about the routing and securing of your oil delivery line and nozzle mounting. This can save a lot of stuffing around later on. Ideally it should be nearly invisible, with no possibility of snagging on suspension parts or your chain - what seems like a LOT of cable ties is probably the right amount.

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  7. You should of stayed with the spray can lube instead of going fancy high tech lol
  8. jstavajstava, Thanks for the tips! Definitely taking my time, and learning a bit by fiddling / things are becoming less scary. Next mission (slept on it) is routing the tubing, can't see an obvious tidy way to run it at the moment.

    Nick gsxr750Nick gsxr750 It was a Christmas present, but it's been on my to buy list for a while now. I ride roughly 130km every week day, rain hail or shine, which means to keep it lubed properly I'd be cleaning and spraying it at least once a week. At the moment I do it around every 2, and by that stage the chain is covered in a black grinding paste.
    This should give my chain and sprockets some extra life, and lower the amount of maintenance I need to do.
  9. All good mate ;)
  10. You will definitely lower the maintenance, dbrain.

    With the E system, you should have the advantage of being able to control the rate of delivery, increasing to suit wet or dirty conditions, decreasing to suit dry/clean ones on the fly. They are great for longer rides or touring. No need to carry chain lubricant, stop to lubricate the chain and adjustment of the chain will not be necessary on route. Your chain will run closer to the ideal tension more of the time. They do take a while to "learn" the best oil delivery rate.

    There is an ideal rate that avoids excess spatter, there will always be some, while delivering adequate lubrication, and that amount can be quite variable given wet/dry and dirty conditions. The ideal is to have your rollers always appearing shiny, your O-rings visible and clean(ish) and the side plates just wet enough with oil so that if you touch them, your finger will come away a little dirty. Your side plates should never develop a caked over appearance and you should never lose sight of your o-rings. A chain that starts to grot up will easily be cleaned by a kero soaked rag and maybe a soft brush (think paint brush. I cut about a third of the bristles off to stiffen it up just a little, but I only use it maybe once or twice a year). I tend to run mine way wet for a few hundred kays before cleaning the bike. This "pre cleans" the chain and the extra spatter is no more bother to remove from the rear of the bike before washing.

    Auto-oilers suit riders who put on a quite a few kays and would rather spend their time riding than cleaning and maintaining their bike chains.

    I have a chain oiler on each of two bikes. a V system Scottoiler on one and a Pro-oiler on the other. Routing the delivery tube is best on the underside of the swing arm along its length and around the outside of the chain where it is visible in the vicinity of swing arm pivot - it should not protrude to where there is any chance of hooking it with a heel, clothing or boot.

    You didn't mention whether you have a single delivery nozzle or dual delivery nozzle set (each side of the sprocket) dual delivery nozzles allow you to use (a little) less oil, but require more care in removing the rear wheel for tyre changes. Most of the effective chain lubrication actually occurs at the countershaft (engine) end of the chain loop. At the rear sprocket end, the oil is delivered to the chain; at the other end of the circuit, where the chain makes a turn with a much smaller radius, the oil is atomised and will coat the entire chain at higher speeds. For this reason, you can use a lower delivery rate at highway speeds in clean conditions. You will get a little drip from the rear end of your chain guard and from the underside of your countershaft sprocket cover.

    Oh by the way, you really don't need to use the Scottoiler lubricant. Any light oil of the same viscosity will work - engine oil is best. Don't use engine oil which has been used - some do. It's already dirty. How to measure the viscosity? Paint shops sell "viscosity cups" which are made for the job. Viscosity is indicated by the time in seconds it takes for the cup to drain from full. The viscosity (or thickness) is critical to the application of paint. The same tool can be used to measure the viscosity of lubricating oil or improvised, by drilling a 8 mm hole in the centre of a 600 ml coke bottle top. Cut the coke bottle in half, and fit the cap. Pouring in 200 ml of oil and timing how long it takes to drain out through the hole gives you an indication of viscosity. Do this with your Scottoil lubricant and find a conventional engine oil that takes nearly the same time, and you can say goodby to special chain lubricant at special prices. Engine oil is as good a chain lubricant for an auto-oiler anyway. It has complete seal compatibility, excellent metal adhesion, and lubricity and you can buy it almost anywhere. You won't need much. A litre would last you years. 5 wt or 10 wt oil is in the ballpark - to be anal, you can adjust it by adding a small amount of singer oil or even kero to thin. Close is close enough. Best to err on the thin side in a system that gravity feeds - some auto-oilers pump the oil and viscosity is a non-issue.
  11. It's a Scottoiler eSystem, came with the default single nozzle delivery. Didn't realise there was a dual option, I'll add that to my wishlist
    Do you think the dual delivery option is necessary? As in would the single distribute the oil around the chain enough?

    Thanks for the tips on the oil. Scottoiler want around $26 delivered for 500ml of their oil, bit overkill.
    Have you found a specific engine oil that matches the viscosity of the scottoiler oil? Or do you tend to use whatever and thin it as necessary?
  12. My Scottoiler fitted bike is off the road for an indefinite period of time. So while I have enough Scottoil "special oil" - enough to measure the viscosity of, and own a painters viscosity cup. it's not an urgent thing. I never actually worked it out, but will should I put the bike back on the road. I bought a extra couple of bottles when I bought the unit, but I'm getting low. You really don't use a lot of oil. Considering the adjustability of the system, I'd think I might be able to just use 5 Wt oil without measuring it at all, so long as it would flow, but I'd measure it to make sure it was at least close. But no, I haven't crossed that bridge yet.

    This is in a Scottoiler V-System which is a gravity fed, vacuum operated valved arrangement. As I understand it, your E system actually pumps the oil. I find the V system fiddly to dial in, is not on the fly adjustable, and because the feed relies on gravity alone to deliver the oil, viscosity would be very important. A question I would have about the E-system is whether it is actually a pump rather than just an electrically actuated valve. The test would be in if it would deliver oil to a higher elevation (maybe 30 cm higher) than the reservoir when it is "on" . This would be easy to test during installation if you simply elevated the delivery end to a position higher than the seat and ran the system, before securing the delivery tube to its final position lower on the bike. It would not surprise me to find that the E-system is simply an electrically actuated valve instead of a vacuum actuated valve and they still rely on gravity to get the oil down the tube. But they call it a pump in the literature and so it is, unless your investigation shows otherwise. Bear this in mind.

    The other system uses a pump (yeh, a separate unit, not a part of the reservoir) and can use any grade of oil. I just use any cheap engine oil. For the cost of a proper painters viscosity cup ( I think I paid about 10 or 15 dollars for mine), the cost of purchasing a viscosity cup would easily recoup its cost the first time you didn't need to buy the original Scottoiler product. Another motorcyclist whose opinion I respect, suggested Automatic Transmission Fluid was an easy direct replacement for the Scottoiler product, but I haven't tried it., and would certainly give it a run through the cup to check how thick it is before using.

    A dual delivery nozzle puts oil on both sides of the sprocket. it means both sides of the rollers get oiled. If you Google Scottoiler, you will find that they have an impressive range of spares - any part can be ordered separately and there are dual feed delivery arrangements available. My scottoiler is on an older bike with an older chain and I've been eking out the life of the chain by deliberately over oiling it with a single sided system. It is probably not necessary. The other one simply came with a dual delivery nozzle set.