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Letter to MCC of NSW

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by sunite, Apr 3, 2010.


Agree with the Proposals?

Poll closed Jul 11, 2010.
  1. Yes i agree to all the proposals

  2. I agree with 2 and 3, cannot afford 1

  3. The MCC is doing a good job already

  1. The biggest problem I see, the process of social policy is that agencies as powerful as the MCC of NSW do not do their jobs well enough. They are meant to represent the motorcyclist, like a union, to explain their importance in terms of how the political system works and why they are a serious powerhouse in policy making....

    1. People complain about their problems, they can complain there problems to either the parliamentarian of where they are from or to a union/representative body.

    2. Parliamentarian sometimes asks what’s happening or being done about it internally or in question time, most of the time they just get a letter back from the parliamentarians secretary that its being looked at.

    Unions/representative bodies look after their members with great interest, usually because they pay them a union fee/membership fee. Unions always act fast and swift, with the best lawyers and the best policy makers, they are very efficient in what they do, and if you ever need help they are always the best people to turn to.

    Motorcyclist representative body do not have policy makers or any lawyers to help them push through draft policy (not sure about Victoria, they got TAC, but in NSW we do not), because of this, we are unable to be heard, and the representative body that we do have representing us do not hear or help represent our interest because they are not funded = no lawyers/policy makers. Because they do not have the right staff for the purpose that they serve, we are not heard.

    3. Representative bodies and unions form and make draft legislation, recommendations, amendments, and other important political policy, these reports are released, the parliament use these to help them formulate their own policy, or sometimes draft amendments. The impotence of representative bodies is that they influence the parliament, and they represent a key stakeholder. Without representative bodies representing us our voice does not get heard, they do not know what to do, they do not know what our interests are, therefore we are ignored and our interests are not represented.

    Proposals to solve this problem,

    1. Set up a system like TAC, where a small fee people pay with the motorcycle registration, this money can be used to represent us and our interests, properly fund what we need (free tolls, more parking spaces, REAL policy makers and lawyers)

    2. Get Dr. Brendon Nelson behind this, he seems to be interested in motorcycles, http://www.bikepoint.com.au/news/2010/dr-nelson-to-start-his-own-motorcycle-political-party-18853 and if he wants real change to happen this is a step, REVAMP the MCC of NSW,

    3. We need YOU to have a say and be more active in this political process, instead of sitting behind your computer and reading this, we need you to go to write to MCC of NSW telling them to do more, attend their meetings, donate some money, join your local MC club, if YOU want to be heard and represented! Alternatively post your agreement to these proposals here.



    * The current democratic structure of how the MCC of NSW would not be compromised, it is a funding boost that would be injected directly into the hands of MCC of NSW, and these funds would go into more lawyers and policy makers, independent studies, ect

    * Free Legal aid would be given by the MCC of NSW for anyone having any issues with traffic offenses, insurance dispute claims, police disputes. The importance of free legal aid is that we have a well paid legal council that we can seek anytime who are well experienced in this side of the law.

    * When RTA draft proposals on changes to laws, they usually consult the representative body, independent bodies on what they think and agree on the draft proposals, examples include when they passed the green P for motorcyclist, you go through their paperwork, says nothing about consultation with the motorcycling community, the current bill they want to pass through for the health reform, they had consultation from the AMA, nurses federation ect, the importance of this is that when they are drafting policy for us, and directly affecting us, we are heard and consulted, and able to give them proposals for what we do want.

    * MCC of NSW would be held accountable for what they do, an example of the 20,000 dollar grant they were given by the RTA, where was this money used? (http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/publicationsstatisticsforms/downloads/rta_annualreport_2009_complete.pdf)

    * There are currently (from last financial year) 162 076 registered motorcycles in NSW, if a levy as small as 5 dollars was put on every motorcycle registration, that would easily fund a full time team of lawyers and policy makers(http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/publicationsstatisticsforms/downloads/rta_annualreport_2009_complete.pdf)
  2. TAC is not what I think You Think it is.

    TAC is Third Party Insurance, your NSW Green slip you require at Registration.

    The Motorcycle Safety Levy might sort of be what your talking about, but I'm not sure that applies either, Probably more VMAC. See link at bottom for Info.

    More info on MSL http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home...cycles/VictorianMotorcycleAdvisoryCouncil.htm
  3. The TAC is effectively just an arm of VicRoads, it certainly is not known for an advocacy role for road users, let alone motorcyclists. It's policies are determined by the government, not from the population.

    The Motorcycle Safety Levy in Victoria is one of the most controversial and disliked 'safety' measures ever concieved, because there is very little accountability as to how that money is used. If it was openly and obviously used to advance motorcycle safety in a useful and constructive way, then fine. If it's used to fund more speed cameras, advertising scare campaigns and police motorcycles, not so fine.

    I'm also not sure where you are getting your notions about trade unions from, as you seem to have an inflated view of both their motivation and their effect. Think back a couple of years to the Howard Government and Work Choices legislation - the union movement was unable to stop that, despite thousands of active, paid-up members. Even now with a more sympathetic Labor government the Award Modernisation process has been fraught with problems and the process for trying to sort them out is slow and painful. (I am currently involved in that for backstage workers in the entertainment industry.)

    I do agree that motorcycle representative bodies are unfortunately ineffective, though I believe it is more a case of apathy among riders than lack of effort on the part of those involved. With more active interest and involvement from riders, organisations like the MCC/MRA etc would be able to exert more influence. However, the political world today is actually remarkably difficult to influence from outside. You mention Nelson as a potential inside contact, but think - 1) he's a federal MP, when road legislation is a state government jurisdiction, and 2) he's been in politics for many years, and is in fact probably coming towards the end of his career. Why would he be likely to have a positive influence now?
  4. "It is also involved in promoting road safety in Victoria and in improving Victoria's trauma system.."

    They do fund the promotion of motorcycle safety, the importance of the funds going to MCC of NSW is that they are an INDEPENDENT body, they are not run by the government, they are not held accountable by the government, they are held accountable by us, the motorcyclist, we vote who we want to lead us, we have our say in the MCC of NSW.

    Your point on the trade unions and the work choices, did the Howard government eventually get voted out, did Howard lose his seat of Bennelong? We got a voice in a democratic government, we can vote on who runs the country. The problem however is that our voices are not currently heard, and need a representative body to represent us, so our voice can be heard.

    If you need legal aid and advice for your problems with employment relations shoot me a PM, ill gladly help you, am currently studying it and would gladly go through the new reform that was implemented in February.(Fair work Australia)

    Dr Brendon Nelson resigned from his federal seat(http://www.smh.com.au/national/my-race-is-run-nelson-forces-byelection-20090825-exaa.html) and now currently heads AMA (Australian Medical Association), he still has political interests "and his plans to field candidates in the next NSW state election" this would directly aid our interests.
  5. Hi Sunite,

    TAC is not the greatest organisation at doing this for motorcyclists. see the ridiculous over the top nasty add they did recently painting all motorcyclists as complete nuts, endangering everyone and basically asking car drivers to take them out. at least that was my take on the ad. this has been discussed here. take a look at it. and another tax? we are already taxed too highly for what we are as road users on the roads. i do not want to pay one more cent for the already bad representation or consideration we receive in planning etc...

    dr nelson was the previous AMA president. he isn't anymore, he resigned to run for the liberal party. showing they are an offshoot of the coservative side of politics. they do have the best run "trade union" in australia, limiting numbers of practioners and ensuring their members are way overpaid.

    The structure of the MCC NSW is unusual but effective. Guy Stanford is a very highly respected individual who has gone onto greener pastures. I am sure Scott, Rob and all the Board will continue in the fine work they have been doing. advancing anything for us against the RTA is supremely difficult as it is, they will keep pushing in our interests...
  6. TAC does through Spokes, in a way as a business model it is there to help reduce liability and to educate, and they have done some good things. But still it is all different to what you stated in your initial post. and if you look at the what's on it's stuck in a time warp.
  7. I think the fact the Howard government was voted out on the back of a successful publicity campaign by the union movement against workchoices and Howard lost his seat means that the union movement was effective but in a totally different way.
  8. "
    TAC is not the greatest organisation at doing this for motorcyclists. see the ridiculous over the top nasty add they did recently painting all motorcyclists as complete nuts, endangering everyone and basically asking car drivers to take them out. at least that was my take on the ad. this has been discussed here. take a look at it. and another tax? we are already taxed too highly for what we are as road users on the roads. i do not want to pay one more cent for the already bad representation or consideration we receive in planning etc..."


    If this was an independent organization would they be held accountable for doing these campaigns against motorcyclist? The importance of the tax would be that they are able to hear our complains and act in our interests.
    Another tax, well look at the benefits, you would have representation all the time, and knowing that people are being paid full time to look after our interest.
  9. You've got those rose tinted glasses welded onto your face, don't you? Independent organisation or not, the TAC is not directly accountable to the road users who's registration money pays for it to exist, including motorcyclists who pay an extra levy. It's only accountable to the government, and it's one of the many things that continues largely unchanged despite a change in government, rendering the electoral accountability argument obsolete. It is the organisation responsible for legitimising the road safety policies that are the bane of our lives, because that's the easiest way to fund the positive side of what it does - insurance for road trauma victims.

    Stop using the TAC as an example - it is nothing like what you are advocating.

    For sunite and smee - the Howard government got voted out after 12 years. Industrial relations was one of many issues that people weren't happy with. Yes, the ACTU etc ran a strong and successful campaign, but the fact remains that they were unable to stop the legislation being passed in the first place (effectively illustrates lack of access to policy makers) and had it been introduced early in a term the legislation would have stayed in place for years.

    Oh, and Nelson is now our ambassadore to the EU, Belgium and Luxembourg, as well as special envoy to NATO and the WTO, so he's not much use for domestic issues anymore.
  10. And since when was MCC NSW deemed to have any power? If anything, from my observations they have less influence than MRA(Vic)......

    Not do their job well enough? They don't have any paid staff and are not funded all that well. They do get a grant or two here and there - but that doesn't go far.

    IF you want an organisation to work for riders - you must put serious money behind it and not say this sort of crap.....

    Me thinks the author hasn't done their research.
  11. i agree with smee. unions were effective in another way, even with declining membership across the workforce.

    howard was voted out specifically because he went too far in industrial relations. getting control of the senate was a wet dream for those guys, as soon as they won i laughed, because all those working class battlers howard loved to talk about and pretend he represented, basically gave him the power to seriously screw them over.

    Tac is not responsible for anything or to anyone, just as the RTA is not responsible for any decisions ( many bad ) they make towards motorcyclists.

    john please lay off the MCC of NSW. it's not a pissing contest between NSW and Victoria. I don't want to throw stones anywhere or at anyone..........if you get my meaning. we have different systems here in our respective states, hence the different methods of advocacy.
  12. There's no possibility of the MCC being funded by the government - If I was in NSW I'd be very concerned if they were because it would definitely compromise the Council. The MRA(Vic) has passed on asking the TAC to sponsor the toyrun in the past year or so because of the potential for conflict of interest but they did sponsor it for several years, however there have always been some of us who were uncomfortable about it

    What NSW does lack that all the other states are bringing in is a consultative council (VMAC, QMSAG, Tas Motorcycle Council etc) which brings together riders, industry and the various government agencies. While they aren't perfect and some are overly dominated by government (QMSAG seems to have an over the top number of govt people) at least it's a start and an opportunity to get some sort of dialogue underway at a high level.

    That it's lacking in NSW is far more of an indication of NSW government attitudes than it is of a failure on the part of the MCC. I doubt anything will happen till there is a change of government in NSW.
  13. lol just let the umc run the joint
  14. Why don't the motorcycle lobby groups in each state run a candidate or 2 for the senate each election, i mean the shooters party get a few per cent of the vote and get in the senate where there ability to block legislation gets them plenty of time in the governments ears.

    I think if motorcycle groups put a candidate up each election, and everyone was informed , with our rising numbers we could snatch a senate seat or 2 and then would have real bargaining power, especially in a tight election
    It would also save the motorcycle lobby groups a lot of money, having a senator with a parliamentary secratary paid for by the state doing there bidding
  15. And since when was I laying shit on MCC? Read what I said again. I thought I was laying shit on the thread poster. They certainly have no idea what the MCC does - just like most of you have no idea about the MRA and what it does.

    How about you stop laying shit on me for once..... Or is this a pissing contest? Be careful what you start.....

    Or is this NSW vs Vic? Certainly feels like it sometimes. Just read AMCN and Boris's crap - now that remark should start a whole new bun fight here:LOL:
  16. john pls read your post #10, you talk about the following in relation to MCC NSW: their lack of power, influence, or even doing their job well enough & finally how many push ups you can do. if that isn't laying sh*t on the MCC then i dont know what is.....

    i've clearly asked people to lay off you in the past and think thats the right thing to do. i am not going to get personal here either with you. it doesn't accomplish anything. i suggest you do the same. my comment about you was in relation to opening yourself up to a whole lot of comments from other users, who are quite happy to bait you, sling sh*t your way.

    as for NSW vs Victoria, it's not a competition. there are some fantastic things going for both states, football codes, culture, motorcycling, your getting a super rugby team etc so what's to debate? i get down there at least once a year for a holiday.

    and re: boris, i've already said in a thread i think the guy is a tool and is probably more the derryn hinch of motorcycling columnists than anything else. not to my taste hence i dont buy the mag. so i dont really give a crap what that wanker has said.
  17. Have you ever been to an MCC meeting?

    Please try and attend next Monday's meeting, sorry but have been a poor MCC rep of late, and next Monday makes four in a row I'll miss ](*,)

    I too am a supporter of having a Govt decision maker on board, however, past President Guy was against it, and so that's where it stopped. However am yet to bring it up with the new President, mainly due to the apathy shown when I raised this a few months ago here https://netrider.net.au/forums/showthread.php?t=107942

    MCC member Club should obviously be supporting any resolution put up so provide a summary of your proposal and this thread's results, and see how you go.

    And again, the invitation is open to any motorcyclist to attend. Ryde Ex Services Club, Victoria Rd at 7.30 next Monday
  18. Can it be finished now :-({|=

    OP, or I, looking to present this to NSWMCC, so the less crap to wade through the better
  19. I'm struggling to grasp what it is the OP wants the MCC, or anybody, to do on our behalf :? Yes, I know, lobby governments, but what for? Permisssion to split lanes at will? Permission to use bus and emergency lanes when no other vehicles except buses and emergency vehicles can? A different scale of speed limits for bikes, in recognition of their different performance capabilities? An exemption from the law regarding crossing unbroken lines? All these things and more I have heard discussed here ad nauseaum as examples of how governments of all flavours and levels 'discriminate' against motorcycling.

    Basically what many riders, and many posters here, want, is a massage of their ego that they are a superior motorised species who deserve special treatment because of their enlightened choice of transport and recreation. That ain't going to happen. Governments of all persuasions are only capable of responding to issues and situations in which their trusted bureaucrats and researchers inform them there might be a photo-opportunity, or some votes. Motorcycling, even across all its broad incarnations, is never likely to cause enough of a ripple to change the status quo.
  20. How much power do you think the MCC has?

    The ACTUAL problem, is that we (the voting public) have no guns or balls and let our politicians do whatever the hell they want once they're in power.

    You get a letter back saying "This is being treated very seriously" while it actually doesn't go anywhere.

    Have you written to the RTA asking them to consider this?

    Nothing is free.

    The RTA does whatever it damn well pleases - and gives only enough lip service to other interested parties to keep them quiet, voting and paying their regos.

    They fund Motorcycle Awareness Week: site, advertising, running costs.
    Largely a stack of the cash goes unspent, however. They have over $100k in the bank waiting for a brilliant idea.

    It would not.