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VIC Legalities of modifications and LAMS approval

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by kate, Jun 2, 2016.

  1. The Vic Roads advice on approved motorcycles for novice riders states:

    “…Any motorcycle modified in a way that increases its power-to-weight ratio is not LAMS approved regardless of whether it appears on the list. All motorcycle learner permit or a restricted licence holders can only ride a motorcycle in its standard manufactured form…”

    WA has something similar, as do the other states:

    “…Any motorcycle that has been modified in any way is automatically deemed to be LAMS non-compliant…”

    I am yet to find a copy of a set of regulations or which might provide a definition of what is deemed to be a “modification”. The closest I have found is this NSW Roads and Maritime advice:

    "...For a motorcycle to remain approved for use by novice riders it must not be modified in any way from its manufacturer’s standard specifications. Only motorcycles that retain all of the manufacturer’s original equipment for that model and model variant will retain novice rider status under the Learner Approved Motorcycle scheme (LAM)..."

    So, without getting too deep into a discussion about the effect of aftermarket exhaust modifications on performance, could fitting a slip on exhaust be non-compliant with LAMS restrictions?

    Are there any other other common aftermarket additions to be careful of, which may breach the requirement of “standard manufactured form” and "modified from standard specifications'? Surely, I can fit a gel seat if I need to. What about fitting a riser or changing handlebars or mirrors etc?

  2. This is interesting - I'd say anything that modifies the performance like exhausts (not sure about just slip-ons), or those big bore kit thingos alongside fuel programmers would be included but I don't see how changing a seat or handlebars would be. Though, if something were to happen and you had Renthal bars for example instead of stock (such as them snapping) perhaps that would be looked at. I'm keen to hear what others answer too as I just don't know but I'd imagine if somebody wanted to be totally nit picking, then yes literally they could pick at whatever modification.
  3. #3 soupsmrs, Jun 2, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2016
    Had to edit this post because it was a double. This bit of the forum seems dead so let's hope some people share their input soon! :ROFLMAO:
  4. Probably be better to ask this out in general areas for a wider sample of knowledge.
    I'd say as long as the mods are 'reasonable replacement of OEM' then they shouldn't be a problem.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. Thanks for the responses. I wondered if JustusJustus might have some thoughts on this one?
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. Would changing exhaust modify LAMS status?

    As long as they do not change the power-to-weight ratio (y)

    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. As long as you don't hoon, exhaust is not overly noisy or you do anything that draws attention to you and your bike no cop will issue you a ticket for riding an 'unapproved' or modified LAMS bike by fitting a new slip on.
  8. and many LAMS bike.. changing exhaust will just piss off your neighbours rather than increasing power so....

    I think pretty much anything that does not impact noise, power or safety directly and significantly, is free to modify (within reason)
  9. Just adding a slip on muffler could unintentionally change the power to weight ratio, most aftermarket mufflers/exhausts are several kilograms lighter than the OEM units, on bikes that are just on or just barely under the power to weight limit may in fact then be over, manufacturers are pushing the limits with them getting as much power as possible without going over so caution would be recommended.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. We're not talking about a lot of weight or a lot of power. So IMO wouldn't make a real difference and I can't see the police bothering to ever get your bike dyno tested and weighed to check this.
  11. They work the ratio out based on an average riders weight of 75kg I think. So losing lots of weight could make you lose LAMS status. (In theory).
    • Funny Funny x 2
  12. Aye, but that's the point, chillibutton.

    If some one fails the attitude test, and has an obvious after market exhaust, the cop doesn't have to worry about dynos and weighing, he/she can just write you a ticket.

    Having said that, I dunno what happens if the cops want to pick on me, riding my 125.

    The "trick" exhaust and a single jet change to the carb has more than doubled the power output, but, tho the bike was LAMS, I am not limited to LAMS bikes.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Yes but the attitude test is a completely different argument. And if I was in that position of getting ticketed for "modifications that cause bike to exceeed power/weight ratio" I'd sure as hell be doing some homework on the numbers before paying the fine.
  14. In Victoria.. as OP said

    Modified motorcycles
    Any motorcycle modified in a way that increases its power-to-weight ratio is not LAMS approved regardless of whether it appears on the list.
    All motorcycle learner permit or a restricted licence holders can only ride a motorcycle in its standard manufactured form.

    does that not make it crystal clear? :p

    but aftermarket parts, manufactured to the same standard as OEM parts, and manufactured as a standard replacement part that do not affect the safety or performance, should be ok.

    this is usually ok where the standard OEM parts are no longer available for that bike.. but adding farkle to a current bike with available parts.. if it has exactly same function and ADR approved, no issue I think.
    exhaust, generally changes noise and possibly emissions, so no go (but you'd have to make a cop cranky..)
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. If I recall correctly, ALL capacities under 260cc are automatically LAMS (with some exceptions).
    The power to weight calc used for LAMS is: (kW / ( tare + 90 )) * 1000. This must be under 150kW/t
    The 90 is 80kg body, 10kg fuel (according to W.A.s D.O.T. description - first time I've seen it described that way).

    For most 250s, even if you remove the 90 from the equation, you are not going to go over 150kW/t.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Ignore, for the moment, the attitude test.

    If a cop pulls over a rider of what would normally be a LAMS motorbike, and that rider is legally limited to a LAMS bike, the wording of the rule allows the cop to write a ticket based on, for example, a non-standard exhaust.

    It's actually one of the few remarkably sensible rules, as a cop out on the road has no reasonable other way of knowing if a bike, possibly listed as being LAMS compliant, is, actually, as such, still compliant.

    So, if the bike is obviously and visibly not as standard...... they can write a ticket.

    I dunno if they have any requirement to prove the bike, in it's non-standard form, actually exceeds the power to weight limit.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  17. This may be the case (info from oldcorollasoldcorollas above), but jeez you'd have to be unlucky to get pinged on it (obnoxious exhausts not withstanding).
    Wonder if any NR LAMS riders with mods have any stats, there are certainly a lot of non standard exhausts out there, and when PSYKCPSYKC had the ninja with loud pipe, not a single cop even looked at it twice.
  18. If you do modify your bike with eg; a slip on, isn't there a way you can get some form of proof it still meets LAMS standard? So if I cop did notice after market stuff and pulled you over you could at least show said cop you're still adhering to LAMS laws
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. No.

    But, at the point where you might be pulled over, we now enter into the area where you may, or may not, pass the attitude test.

    I'm sorry if this offends some folk, but, basically, the rules (in most states) specify "standard" motorbikes.
  20. You have to get a road worthy for your car if you modify it, motorcyclists should be able to do similar *shrugs* most mods are for more than vanity anyways, we should be entitled to at least justify ourselves if it's not voiding the LAM power to weight ratio