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Left turn from stop at T intersection

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by duncanp, May 29, 2006.

  1. How do you do a left turn from a stop sign at a T intersection?
    Where do you position yourself and how do you set the bike up?

    I understand and use counter steering at speed but how about taking off from a stand still. Obviously I can manage it at a slow pace but I want to be able to zoom off. Should I line the bike up at sixty degrees with the wheels in a straight line or have the bike at right angles and the front wheel pointing left?

    What's the best way to practise?
  2. Ummm....

    Stop at stop sign with bike upright.
    Take off with front wheel straight and as soon as you have stable movement, commence turning. It should be a fairly quick and easy thing, so the above two steps really end up getting combined into one.

    Don't confuse yourself with all the countersteering jumbo, just look in the direction you want to go and the bike will follow.
  3. When you're doing under 15-20 you can steer the bike like a normal bicycle.

    But if you're at a stop sign just position the bike on an angle in the direction you are going (Still make sure you can easily see whats coming on the road) you can take off faster doing this but just build up you speed gradually so you don't come off.
  4. Be sure to position yourself to the left of the lane though, or some towering intellect could try to overtake you on the inside when the lights change.
  5. Wow, is that a serious question?

    You take off like you would normally.

    What do they teach people at these rider training centres? :shocked:
  6. They get you to do a start and turn in the L's test. Though its all fairly slow.

    Just turn at slow speed then accelerate when straight.
    If there isnt a big enough gap dont turn there.

    You cant afford to do the idiot driver "if I pull out and they hit me from behind its their fault (its not, they are at fault for not giving way)" trick on a bike, cause you will be dead if they do hit you.
  7. If you're only new then I wouldn't be trying to "zoom off" into narrow gaps in traffic - if you make a mistake shifting gears (like getting neutral instead of 2nd) good chance you'll wind up being hit.
  8. To summarise:
    1. Position the bike left of centre of the lane and aim left when stationary with both wheels pointing in the same direction.
    2. Get it rolling.
    3. Use the handle bar to point the wheel left, look left and lean and add throttle at the same time.

    How does that sound?
  9. And what does that mean? Have you ridden a bicycle?
  10. Middle of the lane with the bike pointing slightly in the direction you want to go (thus blocking a bit of space on either side). I've had dickheads try to pass on both sides in this situation, best way to prevent it is to get the hell right in their way whichever way they want to pass round the corner. We're talking about people who actually think their Camira will out accelerate us, thus stupid enough to do just about anything. You should always position your self so that cars can't share your lane (shouting fcuk OFF is not out of the question either). :)

    Other than that, stop thinking so much about what you are doing. You already know how to turn it. You had to turn to get your L's and nothing's changed. In this situation just look where you want to go and let the bike go with you. :)
  11. Obviously they didn't teach him enough to be confident in all situations. That's why the question was posed here.
  12. And that is a huge problem.

    They give out licences too easily.

    The training is no where near enough to prepare these new riders for the real world

  13. [rant mode="on"] - Sorry .. but here I go!!!

    I absolutely agree!!! A lady I know, (in her early 50s), recently got her "L's", (because it was "something she'd wanted to do"), at a "training centre" in the S.E. suburbs, (Vict).

    She went along to this "training centre" to get a Learners Permit having never been on two wheels in her life before. She'd never even ridden a pushbike and through no fault of her own, believed she would be "taught" to ride a motorcycle at this "training centre" and ultimately get her "permit".

    She got her "permit" and I met her just after she'd got it. I helped her get a cheap little bike, spent a bit of time getting it roadworthy and registered and she was right to go.

    After I/we got the bike through the rego process I dropped it off back at her place and fitted it with a brand new "L-plate" which made her smile. At this point I'd never seen her ride and because it was mid-week and we were pushed for time, I said I'd come back down on the weekend and we'd go for a short ride.

    The following weekend, I rode down to her place, she asked me to run her bike up her driveway and onto the roadside for her. She was nervous and didn't want to try getting the bike up her relatively steep driveway this 1st time. I was a little surprised she hadn't already been out on it in the previous couple of days!!!

    I parked the bike opposite her driveway and as she was all "geared-up" told her to jump on, making sure she adjusted the mirrors etc. We'd agreed on the route for her first ride .. so I said head off slowly while I shot back down the driveway and fired up my bike with the view catching up with her before she got to the t-intersection about 400mtrs up the road.

    I caught up with her just as she was coming to a stop at the intersection to turn left. She looked both ways .. I looked both ways ... nothing coming so she started to move off. I began to feed the clutch in, looked right/straight/leftish again as the clutch started to hook-up and all I could see was the front wheel of her bike hitting the gutter on the other side of the road and her flying over the handlebars!!!! Fortunately .. it's a "rural" area and she landed on as big a clump of nice soft long grass as anyone flying through the air could ask to land on!!!

    She was shaken but not hurt, her visor had popped one of it's hinges and was hanging from her helmet and when I picked her poor little bike up, it was obvious the forks had twisted in the triple clamp, other than that there was no obvious damage. So I said "Sit here for a minute, take a breath or two ... I'll run your bike home then jog back up the road and pick you and my bike up and we'll have a cuppa and a debrief".

    During the course of conversation I found out that during her "training" she'd barely gotten to 50kph and never higher than 2nd gear. What sort of bloody training is that!!! She was nowhere near being ready for the road!!!

    I was absolutely disgusted at the lack of proficiency she'd attained before being given her permit and allowed out on the road!! Not through any fault of hers either I might add!!

    I had no idea what the "training" had involved, (I got my licence back in 1974), but remember well when the "260cc law" came in. I figured these days people were at least "taught" to ride a bike before they got their "L's"!! This lady also naively thought she'd have been taught to ride a bike too ... just like people are "taught" to drive a car on their learners permit, before they get/go for their licence. This lady could very well have been killed, less than 500mtrs from her home, on her very first ride!!! Bloody disgusting!!!

    Fortunately, a few of us from our local "Ole Phartz" club took her under our collective wings and guided her through going further than just around the block.

    Sorry if this is all a bit long-winded, but I wanted to set the scenario!!

    I had never seen a more "glaring" example of being "taught just to get a permit, not to drive/ride" to any "life-saving level of proficiency!!!

    They are "taxing" us here in Vic, between $50-$60 a year on our rego, under the guise of it being a "motorcycle safety levy" ... why the hell aren't they pouring some of that money back into PROPER training by way of subsidies?!?!?!

    Oi!!! You Government twits!!! Build/hire a track/s and teach people to bloody well ride before giving them a "permit" sheeeeesh!!!!

    [rant mode="off"]

    Phew ... sorry about that!!!

    It was the initial question of "How do I turn left at a t-intersection?" that started me off!!!

    Have a nice day!!!
  14. I fear it's no fault of the training but a fault of the attitudes of people who take it. Our trainer told us specifically that we were noe ready to start learning, not that we had yet learnt. The training could be better, but pepople attitudes need to be in line with how difficult and dangerous motorbike can be to ride and how not to be taken lightly that should be.

    Of course, in some ways, it should be the trainers job to make sure that those who don't believe it yet, do so, by the time they finish l training.
  15. I understand what you are saying there, but cannot agree. Unless things are different in your state, the center of the lane at traffic lights usually contains enough oil to trigger a U.S. invasion.
  16. 50kph, thats faster then we were allowed to go. Not even fast enough to start counter steering, its all point the wheel the way you want to go stuff, so its no suprise so many learners run wide when they take a corner at speed.

    They run you through a bit of leaning in the P's test, better late than never but people have been on the road for +3 months.

    Its unfortunate that due to libability BS they arent allowed to go faster in a safe environment under supervision, send them out on the street to teach themselves and crash yay!

    L's test should include a road ride like P's test (NSW), its stupid that it dosnt.
  17. As long as you are confident using your brakes smoothly as you come to a stop its handy to position your bike pointed slightly in the new direction you want to travel in, making the take off a little easier. However depending upon the incline of the intersection you are stopping at you many want to orientate yourself so you are pointing straight up hill (especially if you aren't able to get solid foot down contact with the ground and parking on a angle to the hill will mean one side is down hill and further for you to reach with your foot, as you get better control over the bike this will be less and less of an issue).

    But obviously the more of the turn you do before you take off from your stopped position the easier it will be to complete the turn yet a little more involved as you approach the intersection. You just need to treat it on a turn by turn basis to judge which is appropriate.

    As you take off its entirely possible to have the handle bars at full lock (on my old Ag bike I used to briefly spin up the rear wheel on the grass and slide it out to the side on take off and head off at 90 degrees doing this). But even if you don't spin the rear wheel, using a smooth throttle and clutch you will be able to put the front wheel at full lock and begin the turn immediately. However this takes a little more skill so just as long as you know its a possibility we can leave this until later when you are more confident.

    The easiest way is to have the wheel point straight, take off smoothly (Its all about being smooth) and get your balance (putting your foot on the peg will help with this) then start your turn....just be aware doing this that you have a limited distance (the width of the lane you are turning into) to complete the turn without ending up in another lane or on the other side of the road.

    If you want to practice doing this either with full 90 degree turn or less of a turn from stationary I'd suggest finding a deserted carpark and repeating the exercise of taking off and making left and right turns. The width of two marked car parks should be pretty close to the width of a road so treat the end of the first part as your stop sign and the far edge of the second as the centre line for the road you are entering. If you can get around within that distance you should be ok but if you can do the turn within on park space then you'll have no need for concern at all.
  18. Well, believe it or not I've done no training whatsoever apart from a twenty minute warm-up before my P test. The reason being that I had my bike licence in '74 for eight months on a Honda 90 step through. I am now on a full (unrestricted) m/c licence and all I had to do to get that was pass the Motorcycle Operator's Skill Test (MOST). I went to book my pre learner's course and was actively discouraged from doing it because I had previously held a licence. I figured I needed to do some practise so I decided to get my L license by just doing the M/C Knowledge test. Duly armed I was allowed on the road with my L plate and my newly acquired vtr250. A couple of months later and a lot of time in a car park doing cone work and I went off for my MOST. I was told I could warm -up on something very similar to the course before I would be tested. During the warm-up the instructor/tester told me he'd give me any tips he thought I could use. I went through the test almost without a hitch; I did the "miss the obstacle" instead of the "come to a halt" test. I had no problems with the test, however I did manage to drop the bike during the warm-up funnily enough when I was almost stationary after doing the left turn exercise.

    My knowledge about riding a m/c has almost exclusively been gained through this forum and the vey many kind and experienced people who have made their every effort to enlighten newbies such as myself have played an enormous part in helping me gain the skills I need.

    I have survived 4000 km since getting my bike in Feb this year and Iv'e identified the left and right turn from stop as being the areas I need to work on and hence my specific request.

    I am very grateful to those who have put the effort in to answer this question. Your point about stopping at an angle on a hill is a good one matt.
  19. DuncanP, sorry about the rant before but this business of "training" or lack thereof for new riders is something that's bothered me for a while.

    Matt has some good advice in his reply re setting the bike up for a turn from stationary etc. With 4,000-odd klms under your belt you're getting to be a "seasoned" rider :grin:

    I looked at your age and had an idea. I don't know whether it'd be your sort of thing or not, I have no idea of your situation re free time etc, but, I had a look on the national Ulysses site and they have a branch in the "Hills district".

    I saw you're in the Hornsby area and the Hills mob meet at Castle Hill. They also have a "coffee meet/chat/get together" at Dural. I'd be pretty sure you'd be made to feel most welcome and you'd be amongst like-minded folk re riding etc. They're bound to have a few rides on and would certainly be able to help out with other riding advice/tips.

    Have a looky here .. http://www.ulysseshills.com/

    'Twas just a thought, anyways the best thing you've got going for you is the desire to keep learning and improving/fine tuning your riding.

    As Matt said, there's always a deserted carpark and/or industrial estate to give you some room to practice relatively free from distractions ...
  20. Thanks for the link Ross, I'll be following it up.

    Your story about the fifty something female rider doesn't surprise me in the slightest. It's just sad and indeed almost inevitable that that sort of thing is going to happen to some people given the amount and type of training required at the moment. As with most things the training given to learners can be improved.

    I look forward to practising what I've learnt in this thread.
    I'm a great believer in practise but you have to know what to practise and now I do.