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Learners To Full Licence ...

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' at netrider.net.au started by Thera, Aug 2, 2009.

  1. What Training do you believe in Hindsight/Foresight, you should of/have undertaken before being let out on the road under your own responsabilty?

    Do you think your training missed anything you would consider important?

    If so what?

  2. i think, if you have a brain and know how to use it, thats all the training u need, majority of offs are from showing off, speeding and switching off the brain
  3. Interesting subject.

    Riding is harder than driving, and not being able to have an instructor with you to guide you/assist when necessary means the responsibility for learning is put on the learner.

    Because of this, a learner's attitude is the most important aspect towards development - with the right one, they'll work hard on improving skills and roadcraft and with the wrong one they'll do stupid things like push further than their limits allow for.

    When I was taught to ride (preL course) I was given the basic skills to potter around a half tennis court sized route. Did this equip me to jump on the road comfortably? Of course not, I practised in my street and in carparks and slowly started building up to more streets, traffic, etc.

    But I really wouldn't expect rider training to take you through that whole progression, simply because its not feasible - and only being able to ride with another fully licensed rider (as it is in some states) is a bad idea in general as it limits potential learning time as well as development of personal responsibility.

    The 2 half day courses in NSW are enough to teach you how to learn, and without a massive increase in budget for learning centres (as well as about 10x as many) it doesn't make sense to try to teach more than the basics.

    Thats on a general scale, as for what would be absolutely ideal for a learner would be to do the preLs course and then have a riding buddy with bluetooth or similar headset so you can converse whilst riding/practising, etc. This is what I'll be doing with a mate when he eventually gets a bike, hoping to fast track his skills and roadcraft (thus hopefully reducing chances of newbie accidents).
  4. Hi,

    Up untill 3 months ago my wife had never ridden a pushbike. She failed te L's course on her first day, but after 4 hours of private tuition (2 from stayupright and 2 from me in the local carpark) she managed to get her L's on a scooter.

    Since getting her L's we now ride aroud the block together and have ventured to the local shops amongst Saturday morning traffic.

    The best investment for this activity has been a blueant intercom. I can talk to my wife while she is riding to remind her of hazards as well as provide encouragement when she is doing well.

    While some people take to riding like a dick to water, I really think some people need a whole lot more suervision than the L's course. If you know someone like this maybe take the time to ride with them to reduce the riding risks while they learn.

  5. As already stated, some people take up riding quite easily.

    For me, I found my training was great. Basic slow speed skills first, along with looking where you want to go, looking through the corner etc. E-stops from 60+ kmh. Then I went on a couple 1 on 1 rides with my instructor, stopping every 10 mins or so for a debrief on what I had done well/could use improving on. Then a full debrief at the end of the lesson. This was through a Q-Ride instructor.

    12 months and 30,000km+ with my full licence later, and I have yet to come across a situation my training did not in some way prepare me for.
  6. Possibly U-turns on inclined slopes. Hill starts on hills with a grade of say 5%. (My qride only really made us do it on hills that were like 0.5%).

    I shat myself the first time i had to do a hill start on a steep hill on my bike, nearly dropped my bike. EDIT: Not enough revs, rolled back a long way, slammed on the brakes.. you get the idea.
  7. Good question. I have a real worry about people with no road experience being let out on their own so soon. Perhaps people should have to get a Car Learners Permit (and do all the same log-book crap to prove they've clocked up plenty of practice hours with an experienced driver) before they can get a Bike learners? It would be tricky to legislate, but VicRoads could provide a financial incentive for people to get supervised road experience (i.e. cheaper cost of bike learners permit if you have road experience)?

    It's not easy. The one thing that should be avoided is any dis-incentive to ride. We need more bikes on the road in Australia... then maybe cagers will start looking out for us :roll:
  8. I agree hill starts, was not covered in course at all. I think even riding at higher speed. Because its a big ask, you get your L's, where you have only ridden at highest speed around 30km/h then you pick up your bike and suddenly you have to do around 80km/h or even 100km/h if you are using the freeway. Maybe cover riding in wind, riding in traffic.

    WHat do at a motorcycle accident, such as not removing the helmet etc.
  9. Learners courses tend to be OK and I think they do teach enough to give you the basics but more important is to build those skills and gain a good command of your bike before your exposed to a certain amount of traffic.

    (i've mentioned this before in another thread) the greater problem tends to be that most of us do not live close to a carpark or very quiet street that allows a learner to focus more on their control and therefore are required to get through some main streets/intersections to find such places.

    It would not seem sensible to get an L plater (in car) with one or two lessons to drive through similar streets yet its what most new riders are expected to do.

    Perhaps more experienced riders need to help new riders get their bikes to some of these quiet areas so they can develop their skills a bit more before heading into traffic - I'll raise my hand for people in the inner west of Sydney - If you want me to ride your bike to a quiet area or car park pm me.
  10. Having got my L's about 4 months ago this is something I feel very strongly about.

    I grew up in gippsland, and have been riding dirt since I was about 4. Been involved in small scale club racing ( dirt ). Started driving at 9. Got my L's for cage the day I tunred 16. Got my P's for cage the day I turned 18. Got my full licences for my cage the day I tuned 21.

    I had my licence for my bike while on my car P's but got busted 40km/h over and lost everything for 6 months and in that time my L's for bike expired :( so had to start from square 1.

    So where do I stand on this having riden now for 4 months and about 5,000klms on the road? I honestly believe that if I didnt have 5 years experience on the road in a cage I would have come off by now. Either from my own fault but most likely would have been knocked off by a cage's move ( wether right or wrong ) I didnt anticipate. For the simple fact I wouldnt know what to expect, I wouldn't be thniking 10 moves ahead and behind, I wouldn't realise that tosser is about to pull out infront of me and try to kill me.

    Having come from a dirt back-ground I know my way around a bike, but I'm the first to say wow, huge difference between dirt & bitumen. I mean really WOW.

    Although all that dirt riding side-ways feeling what a bike will do when pushed and how it will react and 5 years of battling idiots in a cage have deffinently made me a better rider on the road straight off the bat. I've had much older guys than me shake my hand at a set of traffic lights because they couldnt shake me in traffic! This one guy said "are you sure that 'L' plate is yours"? I said "yep, sure is", and he replied "well fu*k me, good on you son"!

    While I cant ( yet :p ) scream around bends with my knee down, I can hold my own due to understanding where limits are between rubber and road and being able to predict 10 moves ahead.

    I believe my licence expired when I couldnt re-new it for a reason. Back then I still believed I was 'invincable', and far to immature in the head for a bike. Looking back at the stupid rediculous things I did in a cage ( 240km/h on re-moulds once just to give you an idea of how stupid) I know full well if I had a motorbike at my dissposal it wouldn't have been pretty to say the least.

    Sending kids out on a bike with no real life skills is like sending a foot soilder to war with no gun. IMO.
  11. No one sends them out. They go out themselves. Take responsibility for your own lives folks.

    Otherwise agree with your post!
  12. Yeah I guess I could have worded that a little better. It is true it the individuals decision to recieve further training and prepare themselves in needed.