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NSW Learner Licence Suspension

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by Crash Bandicoot, Dec 28, 2014.

  1. Hi guys, how's it going? :)

    Sorry if this topic/thread has already been mentioned previously before but I'd really like to get the opinions and perspectives from some experienced riders and what y'all think I should do.
    This is my first post so I apologise if it seems a little scattered, I just wish it was about something more positive.

    Anyway, as the title would suggest, I have recently been handed a 3 month suspension on my Learner's permit for getting caught speeding (double demerits as well). The police officer was nice enough to reduce the amount of speed I was travelling over by. I completely understand that I was in the wrong and accept the consequences of my actions, though the prospect of not being able to ride for 3 months bums me out hard!

    So I have 21 days to pay and before the suspension actually takes place. I've done some thinking and by the time the suspension lifts, my L's would have expired by early April. I really don't want to have to go through the process of getting my L's again so my question is, before the suspension takes place should I just go for my P1 test? If I do pass, and when the suspension does lift, will I be on my P1 Licence then?
    If anything, what's your take/advice? And please don't say, "Don't get caught speeding". I'm sad enough as it is with the idea of not being able to ride for a few months :(

    Thanks guys! Appreciate any help!
  2. Just be aware that while you have unpaid fines you can't re-register your vehicle or renew your licence, so don't leave that hanging around. You may not be allowed to do your Ps test, or any other road user test, with a suspension in the works either. I don't know that for sure but it doesn't sound out of place.
    My eldest son just got hit for speeding as well, with only 1 point left on his Ps. I taught him better blah blah etc but he's done it. I don't think it's hit him yet that he's going to be on public transport for a while, or risk much more severe penalties for driving on a suspended licence. Given his ability to get away with speeding (ie none, no ability) I'm hoping he doesn't think that's a risk worth taking.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Don't quote this as gospel. From what i've read i'm pretty sure you will need to resit your L's in this instance as your L's are suspended and will be expired before the suspension lifts.

    There is also a question you need to tick when you go for your licence test that says along the lines of "Have you had a suspension in the last 3 months? Are you currently suspended, refused or disqualified from holding a licence in Australia or overseas?"

    As the suspension starts at the time of payment, i would work out if the 21 days gives you some leverage in terms of your L's running out. If paying earlier means you can do your 3 months and still have a valid licence then i would be doing that. If it runs out regardless of paying tomorrow for example then I assume you'll have to resit the L's and then wait another 3 months after that to take the P's.
  4. Thanks for getting back to me guys! I really appreciate your input! :)
    Anyway, I'm remaining hopeful with the idea that I may be able to sit through the MOST test. Just because a mate of mine was also done for speeding. However the scenario was that he was on his P1 licence which too would have expired within the duration of the suspension. The officer who booked him actually advised him to sit for his P2 test before paying for the fine while his licence was still active. Needless to say that's what he did and my friend passed, getting him his P2 licence then paying for the fine. The RMS processed this and he just lost 3 demerit points, leaving him with the 1 point left but without a suspension.

    Aww, that sucks! I guess speeding is just one of those things us younger riders have to learn from through experience. Lol, it'll definitely hit him when he's out shoved among other shitty commuters in the summer heat on a train during peak hour. The very thought of it has already got me depressed D; Lesson learnt!!
  5. Man, that sucks hard.. I'll probably go into my local RMS and ask them what I can do in this situation. I knew that I should've sat for my P1 licence sooner, I don't even know why I didn't.. I thought about whether or not it'd be worthwhile to just pay the fine now and let the suspension run but the cons outweigh the pros for the moment and it still wouldn't leave me with enough time to sit for my MOST test

    In any case, I guess if I do have to sit through the Learner Riders Course again at least I'll look like a 'pro' on a motorcycle amongst the potential new riders who haven't had any experience on a bike before (me when I first started). I'd eat shit though if I stall the engine during the course!

    Thanks for your input! :)
  6. First real post so Ill try to help.

    As a learner or Provisional rider you can appeal a licence suspension. Road Transport Act 2013 S266(1)(b) is where you need to look. Appeals must be lodged within 28 days at a Local Court..

    A suspension notice for exceed speed is issued under S40(1) of the act so it is an offence that can be appealed.
  7. You can't appeal a suspension until you are suspended, and further, upon what grounds would you run an appeal?
    Unless there was an error at law or a technical error with the fact you received an infringement or an error in applying the suspension s266(1)(b) if of no use to you.

    How long until your L's expire?
    You would be best to sit the MOST asap, and before paying the fine. The suspension will take place not immediately upon payment, but once you pay (acknowledge guilt) and the RMS process the suspension notice.
    You will also be given a notice period, usually 14 days in the letter advising of the impending suspension. All in all, up to a month following payment before your suspension takes effect.

    You cannot be precluded from sitting the MOST on the basis of having received the infringement that could lead to a suspension, because you have the right to have the matter heard by a court, and the RMS cannot preempt the outcome.

    If you want to delay the suspension as long as possible, wait the initial 21 days given to pay (if NSW) and then a reminder comes giving a further 21 days to pay. On that reminder notice you will still have the option to have the matter heard by a court and you should wait until near the end of the 21 days to send the court election back via registered mail.

    You will then get a notice to appear and that could take a few months to arrive, and it will give you around 21 days notice of the mention date.

    Go to court on that date and plead guilty. You may (but unlikely) face a higher fine and about $60 court costs.
    You will hopefully by then have the P1 license.
  8. Hey, thanks for your very informative reply! I really appreciate your help and sorry for my delayed response.
    I've decided to actually follow the combined advice of yours and my friend's. I'll be appealing my suspension in court after paying for my fine. As to what grounds, I'm just going to be honest and say that I need my licence to ride to work and TAFE as it's my only form of transport. This is my first traffic offence and I am legitimately remorseful for my actions. I'm not sure how lenient the judge would be especially that I'm only on my L's and I've been riding only shy of a year, I understand that I will not get away with a mere slap on the wrist but anything would be better than 3 months without my ride!

    My L's expire early April.. So by the time the suspension runs it's course, I will not have any time to sit for my P1
    I have booked my MOST test and am expected to sit through the examination in about two weeks time, just 5 days prior to the beginning of my licence suspension. Fingers crossed I'll pass! Any useful tips or tricks to help me get through the skills test? I'm so f*cking nervous!

    I'll definitely wait it out until the 21 days are up and I'll be sending in my appeal once I pay for fine. Hopefully things smooth out a little bit, this has all been nothing but a wrench thrown in the works. I genuinely regret my actions but I feel like the grounds for my defence are lacking and a little bit lame. I don't know, what do y'all think?
  9. Haha, thanks for helping a noob out! I'll be sure to look into it! :) Appreciate your input mate!!
  10. Not sure how it works in NSW but in VIC if you pay a speeding fine, that is the same as pleading guilty to the offence in a court. You would not be able to appeal to a court after paying a fine because the infringement no longer exists once its been paid.

    To delay a suspension you would tick the box on the infringement notice that says "I wish to have the matter dealt with by a court", then the infringement gets withdrawn and a court summons is issued in its place. Then you have the option of pleading guilty or not guilty when it eventually gets to court.

    So just make sure you are not losing your ability to appeal by paying the fine.
  11. If you pay the fine and then try to appeal the suspension itself (not the infringement) you will be walking for 3 months.
    The fact you don't want to walk is not even remotely going to convince a magistrate to overturn a suspension, you have zero chance of success with that means of dealing with this.
    I also can't see how you know when 5 days from the suspension will occur.

    Sit the MOST but if in NSW, even if you hold the P1 then pay the fine it's a speeding offence and speeding offences for P drivers/riders carry automatic suspension so you may gain nothing by sitting the MOST in advance other than not having to get the L's renewed, but in all probability you are still going to be walking.
  12. The grounds for appeal doesn't need a reason as a learner or provisional. They are allowed to appeal due to their lower demerit point limit threshold. That was the section I quoted in my earlier post. You is appealing the Suspension, not the offence.
  13. It's actually s267 of the act that is relevant. S266 is simply the definitions.

    Notwithstanding that, s267(3) requires th grounds for the appeal to be given in the notice of appeal.

    I haven't looked closely regarding whether an offence pursuant to s40(1) would be an appealable decision.

    I'll look at the regs later...
  14. A quick look shows a decision under s40(1) is appealable, however low point threshold isn't mentioned there.

    I'm on my phone and will look more closely later.
  15. S266(1)b refers to appealing an immediate licence suspension imposed by a police officer. I dont think that applies here.

  16. S266 is "definitions" and an offence that results in a suspension pursuant to s40(1) is defined as appealable among other appealable decisions such as one imposed on the spot by police.
  17. Hi guys! Sorry for necro-posting, the last several days have been quite hectic and I haven't had the time to log on and check your replies. Hope everyone has had an awesome and safe time celebrating into the New Year :)

    For the moment, I think I'm just going to sit my MOST test and hopefully if I pass, let the suspension run. I don't think it'd wise to tempt fate and I feel lucky enough to have gotten off lightly for the most part.
    I'll be sure to take a further look into the sections mentioned within the legislation so I can determine my outlook if I do decide to ultimate appeal the suspension in court.

    Anyway, hope everyone has a lovely time riding their weekend away! Take care and ride safe :)

    Noted!! Haha