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LAMS Panigale?

Discussion in 'Bike Reviews, Questions and Suggestions' at netrider.net.au started by chickenstrips, Oct 26, 2015.

  1. So I was at Sydney City Motorcycles in Lane Cove on the weekend talking to one of the salesmen who works there, and we got onto the topic of the new models Ducati plans to release next year.

    Now we already know that Ducati has announced they will be releasing 9 (from memory) new models in 2016, and apparently among them, according to this guy, will be a LAMS legal 659 Panigale. He said he thinks they'll scrap the Monster 659, and change the Panigale lineup to a 659, a 759, and a 959. I've had a quick Google search on this and I haven't really been able to find anything... What are your thoughts on this happening?

    I wouldn't mind having a Panigale but unfortunately license restrictions say no ;)

    For those of you who are interested, he also reckons there'll be changes to the Scrambler and and Hypermotard lineups, with the addition of LAMS models and some other changes in each.

    Does anyone have any other info??
  2. sounds very interesting, but as they just brought out the 1299 panigale i doubt that they will drop it like he says.

    I'm not sure how much truth there is to it - building a restricted 659cc panigale would be going in the completely wrong direction for a brand like Ducati and would do more damage than good long term.

    Could work if it was a full power version though
  3. I have read from several sources that the 899 panigale is definitely becoming a 959 for next year, but as for LAMS I havent heard anything about that!
  4. What makes you say that? A lot of people like that style of bike, and with LAMs being 3 years now people are willing to put more money into it.
    I can't imagine someone shopping around would avoid a Panigale because there's a baby edition available. I also don't think they'd drop the price a bunch on the learner bike, so they'd still be pulling in the money and semi rare to see around the streets.

    The only downside I can see is the LAMs Panigale kids will probably be itching to try a different type of bike by the end, instead of possibly upgrading to one from another bike. At that point they've made a sale already though.
  5. i ride a monster 659, i would love a LAMS pannigale more than a monster. i think they would sell more of these than Monsters.
  6. #6 SIKKO_X2, Oct 29, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2015
    Here are some of my reasons for saying that:

    - Ducati is an aspirational, high performance brand - the sort of brand that has posters on young kids bedroom walls and making those beautiful sport bikes too easily accessible ruins that and can quickly turn it into a mainstream brand.

    - The LAMS category is also very crowded at the moment and is growing more crowded with every unveiling at motorshows, it would be very hard to create a good enough proposition to customers with the level of restrictions that are in place for LAMS.

    - Cost is also a massive issue - In order to keep with the spirit and passion of the brand it would need to have all sorts of high quality componentry and be hand built in Italy, which simply isn't economical to do, since the LAMS category is full of brilliant bikes at lower prices. Building a lower quality and underpowered version of their flagship bike will only detract from the value of their top tier Panigale's, which they charge a fortune for.

    - Again, the cost of Ducati producing such a bike is likely to be prohibitive as it is unlikely to sell in such high volume that it can be justified.

    - I doubt that the volume will be there to justify doing it, as the bike will be built for global markets where restrictions differ. By building the bike for licensed riders they are likely to sell in greater volume as there aren't the same level of restrictions and the competition is less in that category.

    - Having a LAMS monster and potentially a LAMS Scrambler are perfect entries for Ducati to this segment as they can get away with it as they aren't flagship vehicles, plus it doesnt go against the grain of what the individual bikes spirit and appeal is.

    It would be great to see it as a full power bike, slightly lower cost bike for full license holders as it would give a stepping stone to the Superbike range for fully licensed riders and could compete with the upcoming R6, ZX6R, etc. without affecting the brand and will likely sell in much higher volume as it keeps the passion and brand essence alive without being too expensive for the weekend warriors. It also gives consumers a good reason to choose a brand new 659 Panigale over an older, secondhand bike
    • Agree Agree x 3
  7. I would be quite interested in a full blooded 600cc panigale for sure.

    Oh wait.......that new Thruxton R.

    Oh wait....the 800cc street triple.

    Too many bikes, not enough time.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. i call bullshit.

    dropping the 659 monster??? in favor of a fully faired low power panigale?????? BUUUUUUUUULLLLLLSHIT.

    they may wind back the "panigale" to a litre for the next incarnation (it's getting a bit big) but while the SBK rules allow it i can't see it happening. having a 50hp bike kicking round looking the same wouldn't do wonders for their flagship image, and the 659 monster is a really popular bike and an easy model to prepare for lams.

    the lams hypermotard would be good though, as would a lams scrambler, although it would require a smaller engine capacity, not just restriction.

    a NON lams supersport panigale with around 100hp would be an awesome bike

  9. edit:
    a NON lams supersport panigale with around 100hp would be an awesome bike.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Get on the phone and make it happen. :)
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. i've already discussed it ;-) I'm very very lucky to chew the fat with duc aus from time to time and try to give my frank opinion whenever we do (although i'm aware it may come across as overly critical lol)

    The 1299 panigale is an awesome bike, but in the real world you cant enjoy it as much as you should, and that means most of the time it seems nowhere near as awesome as it really is. I was dying to ride it, so having one for a weekend was great..... but i enjoyed the monster 1200S a LOT more. I'd like to try the 899.

    The scrambler is fun, but i don't believe that it is anywhere near as good value, or as good a bike as the monster 659/696. The ergonomics are a bit wonky, and wide bars would make splitting difficult if you intended to use it as a city commuter. It's cool cause it's retro, and it's "customisable" so it competes with the trumpy... and i guess it would appeal to many in the lams market if they made it with a smaller capacity. Punting it along in the twisties and trying to keep up with the 1299 is pretty thrilling. (While on the 1299 it feels like a dawdle)

    I haven't ridden the hypermotard much, but the impression i was left with was it would take some time, and manhandling, to come to terms with it. (it really needs to be taken for an out of town battle to establish dominence, much like breaking a horse) I was thoroughly unimpressed with the gearbox, and has a lot of difficulty taking off smoothly without stalling or wheelieing but i think the aforementioned thrash time would fix that. If they made a lams version it would get rid of some of the wheelieing, and make taking off easier..... it would be a great lams addition.

    i haven't ridden the multi. no excuse. the formula is obvious.

    The diavel is interesting. it's a pony bike i guess. It blurrs the line between cruiser and sports bike. I would say it pulls up short on both fronts, and it's not REALLY a formula i understand anywhere outside a cafe parking lot. I guess it gives you some credibility with the sporting crowd who might chuckle at cruisers being moving road blocks.... but the reality is, otside posing, you either want to cruise or you want to ride. The diavel is uncomfortable to cruise the open road on, its ergos are weird and the wind buffeting is anything but relaxing (even compared to the similarly naked monster) so getting to the corners is better done on something else. Then when you get there, it's fun, it gets along pretty well and it's low speed accelleration is great fun. but here's the thing.... low speed is good for tight twisties, and on tight twisties a lighter, more sporty bike is more enjoyable and less draining. The attention to detail applied to the whole bike is awesome. it doesn't look like it's bolted together with chrome dipped fencing wire, it's solid, it's crafted, it sounds great, it's a fantastic cafe car park creation and an enjoyable hoon bike.

    the monster 1200S is magic.
  12. Sounds like a monster 1200 R is a good move then!
  13. As I said I'm a lams rider, but I love my Italian. I don't want no ninja.
    I would buy a 650 panni in a heart beat. I reckon it would be a bigger seller than the 659 monster.
  14. Ducati won't water down there flagship panigale to make a lams bike.
  15. Who's asking them to water down the flagship?
    No one wants to take away the 1299 or the 899, but adding a lams version isn't going to ruin ducati's reputation any more than the 659 ruined there rep.
    Facts are lams bikes are the big sellers for all makes.
  16. Why don't Kawasaki make a lams h2?
    Not going to happen .
  17. We shall see.
    Kwaka have put a lot into the supercharging, you can bet it's not just for the h2. This kinda of stuff always filters down.
    These are business's about making money and if they believe they can sell something well, they do it!
    How many 300 ninjas get sold to every h2??
    1000-1? 5000-1?
    Sure if they made a lams pani, if wouldn't have the same anything as a 1299 other than the name and a similar look, but that is enough for lams.
  18. The reason they sell so many 300s are they are cheap.
  19. Having rocked up to a pub and a popular meet/break point on a 1299 and an rsv4.... The planigale gets a lot of attention because it's a panigale. That's actually the best thing about riding it, people know what it is. Having it confused with a poser lams bike would take that away. Ducati would be nuts. A legit middle weight bike is one thing, but not a lams bike..... You have greater chance hoping for a new cagiva mito
  20. Just thinking about the servicing costs or things like getting a valve adjustment done makes my skin crawl.