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L Plates what if u r caught without one legitimately?

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by mrpaco, Dec 13, 2007.

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  1. Hi guys,

    I'm a new rider :) I've got a new Aprilia RS125.I am still on my L's.

    Anyways my topic is related to an incident this evening, I was riding back home from the shops (spent my budget on X'mas gifts)... and I got pulled over by an unmarked cop. I was not speeding nor was I doing anything wrong from the ordinary of proper riding conduct. When the officer walked to me I asked him did I do anything wrong, he was swift to say nothing I just want to give you an RBT.... the cop was sooo anal about it as if I had no right to ask why I am being pulled over. I actually appologised and just told him I was just curious as I could not understand as to why he had pulled me over. I told him I was a new rider and that it was the first time I had been pulled over. I carried out the RBT and the officer looked at my Lic.

    This is where I get screwed, when I left home I had my L plates on, (I know others try to pull of the trick, it must have fell of - but I genuinely had mine on when I left home). So after sighting my Lic the officer asked why I had no L plates on, I was shocked and told him I did have it on when I had left home. Of course the copper did not believe me and being the anal cop he was booked me for $185 and 2 points. I am sooo disappointed with this fine as I truly did not deserve it. There was another mate who was riding with me on a 1000 fireblade and he was weaving left and right but the cop decided to pull me over (the one riding nice and safe) - how is that fair????.

    I've put some thought since I got home, I want to contest this fine. I believe its a flawed road regulation on the grounds that it fails the "Beyond reasonable doubt" test. I'm no lawyer but I did cover a topic of beyond reasonable doubt in university. From my understanding is that if there is a slight hunch/feeling or thought that the crime/offence was not performed or cannot be certain then we or the judge/jury cannot rule out guilty. (I welcome all lawyers and non solicitors to comment on this as I mention I have no law background.)

    In this instance the cop that had pulled me over could not 100% say that I had intentionally left out my L plates and he could not rule out that my L plates may have very well have fallen during the course of my ride. I do ride a 2 stroke aprilia which also tends to have more vibration than normal learner legal bikes and hence the explanation for the plate falling.

    I am posting this so that I can get other peoples input on this. I'm also hoping to get numerous response to this thread which supports my case, so I can print it out and attach it to my contesting note.

    Thanks guys let us know what your thoughts on this are :)
  2. reasonable doubt doesn't come in to play. the fine is for "failing to display L/P plates", not "failed to put plates on when he left home".
  3. First post:

    He probably pulled you over because he did a check on the rego which came back to a learner rider - then he see's no L-plate.

    So he pulls you over. Checks to make sure that you are in fact the rider.

    Then he gives you the penalty notice.

    Unfortunately for you, there is no way to get out of this fine. The offence was completed when you were riding without an L-plate, whether you had one on at the start of the ride or not does not even come into consideration.

    Just think how many people a day the cop pulls over who tell him "It was there when I left home" or "It must have blown off."
  4. I could offer some advice as I have some experience in this area, but given you can't be bothered to fill out your profile, and introduce yourself, you just post a "HELP!" well I can't be bothered either.
  5. Mate...nobody but L/P platers ride a CB125R. So if one is seen without an L/P plate... well too easy. Secure the L properly. Glue it to something sturdy, and then bolt it on. Pay the fine and put it down to experiance.
  6. which is damned obvious, seeing as he was riding an aprilia and not a honda. Not that the general population, including coppers, has a bleeding clue as to what the different types and capacities are.
  7. contest it.
    I have did the same thing when i got done for driving w/o a P plate (it fell into the hatch of the car i was driving)

    i got off the fine & even if you don't get off it gives you another 6 months to pay it

    all the best

  8. Police often pull over 250's because we find alot of people riding them without licences. The other statement that seeing a learner permit and no l plate is accurate.

    The offence is one of strict liability so reasonable doubt does not come into play. But, some magistrates may let you off with a warning, some will make it worse for you.
  9. Not disputing you Hubie, but this does surprise me, I can't see why a 250 would be attractive to an unlicensed rider, the fine is the same no matter what size bike your riding if your unlicensed. Gawd, if it was me, I'd be on a bigger bike for sure, if your gonna get done, may as well get done on a big bike rather than a little one.
  10. Noobs and younger folk (who don't have $10K to spend on a big bike) will often buy cheap transport, and run the gauntlet with licenses. Another consideration is that learners licenses (NSW anyway) only live for a short period before they expire, and you either have to pass the MOST test or renew the learner license (which requires re-attending pre-L's in NSW) and that can be a pain in the arse and the wallet for some people, so they don't bother. It particularly happens when you sit the MOST test very close to the expiry date of your L's and fail, then you may find it isn't possible to re-sit the test before the expiry, so they just keep riding.
  11. I asked my friends dad about this, hes a criminal laywer.

    The legal system in QLD requires road offenders to "Ackknowledge the fact"

    For example:
    Did you know you were speeding?
    No, i didnt think i was

    you have acknowledged it and ignored it.

    By not acknowledging it, you can get off - as demonstraited by my brother

    Did you know you were speeding?
    Oh was I?

    Thats all my brother said for 10 minutes - the cop tried numerous ways to phrase it and even pretended to leave the scene twice in waht can only be an attempt to get my brother to be foolhardy and say something stupid like "thanks for letting me off pig" (thats ackknoledgement:p)

    we sat there for 10 minutes.. longest 10 minutes ever, we all know how we sweat when i cop pulls us over :D
  12. It would REALLY help if the OP out his location in his profile.
  13. I have never heard a bigger load of shit...
  14. I second that! Never heard of anything like it in any state. The road rules are based on the Australian Road Rules, and at the risk of assuming, the situation with strict liability still applies. :-k

  15. IMO in vic, the penalty for not displaying your Plates (the demerit points) is a sham!! it shouldn't be so much, perhaps 1 point and a big fine, for a P plater... demerit points means a lot!

    in nsw i believe it is 2 points
    in vic, it's 3

    im in no way baging the cops, they do a great job! however, i believe the be less dodgyness if every cop car had a camera+audio, like in the US.

    just a question, and in know way think this could ever happen, but:
    if a cop pulls you up and stings you for not displaying your appropriate plate, when you clearly have it on, how will you go about proving your case?


    its' 3 points for not displaying appropriate p/l plate in vic
    it is 0 points and $110-$120 fine for not driving/riding to license conditions, for example 250cc > 1,000cc

    which would be the killer .. :) its like you're more risk of dying when not displaying your plate/s :p
  16. Sounds like a crock of shit to me, so in this case I can go to Qld, rob a bank, and when arrested deny I have an armful of cash and just walk off??
  17. I got done 3 times for not displaying an L plate. All fines. No loss of demerit points. Every time I was pulled over i tried to lie and say it must've fallen off or that I was on my way to buy a new one. lol. I suck at lying.

    OH - edited to add that I used my L plate for the first 7mths of my Learners but then got sick of having one so instead of going for my licence, I just got rid of the plate. :LOL: That's when I started getting pulled over. doh.
  18. im curious about kyro's question, what does happen if you get an arse of a cop who fines you for that, even if you are displaying plates? just curious :)
  19. This is one of those where you were found at a particular time, date, and place, to be commiting an offence. What you were doing earlier in the day you get away with, but its not an excuse.

    I couldn't help wonder if this "but it was there when...." could be applied to speeding tickets?
    "But Officer, I wasn't speeding this morning when I got on my bike!!"
    Or the guilty mind:
    "Yes Officer, I went into my garage and found my bike already doing 70 in a 60 zone!"
    :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
  20. You stop cutting the cops grass when he's on shift and maybe he won't sting you again :LOL:

    Seriously: Sure, cops make mistakes, but lie about something that trivial?? :roll:
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