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Kwaka er6n v Suzi GSR600 v Moto Guzz Breva 750....what the ?

Discussion in 'Bike Reviews, Questions and Suggestions' started by martych, Oct 7, 2006.

  1. Just when I thought i had made up my mind....along comes the Bike Expo. Now I'm almost back at square 1 DAMMIT!!!

    I have been weighing up the pros and cons of the two Japanese contenders for months. Loved the look of the Suzuki over the Kwaka and ultimately thats (after test riding both etc,) what it came down to.

    Then I go to the Expo and see the er6n in orange. What a dream machine. (Incidentally the new red colour Suzi looks pox , I think)

    So, you can imagine my dilemma...but then just to really do my head in, I notice a MotoGuzzi Breva 750. I would never have gone in search of a Euro model as I thought they are too exy. But they're priced pretty similarly at 12k (ish).

    The Guzzi is the only one I haven't ridden, but the riding position and build quality seem superb. I guess I owe it to myself to test this now as well, but was hoping someone out there (who knows a lot more about what to look for etc,) has done a similar comparo ???

    Also...are shaft drives easier to own ? Less mainatanace etc, ?
  2. Well, a shaft drive never needs chain lube or adjustment.

    Sadly, they can't wheelie or countersteer, but that's the price you pay.
  3. There might also be a difference in maintenance costs between the Suzuki/Kawasaki and the Moto Guzzi. Cost of services and parts might be more expensive with the Italian bike.

    Just something to take into consideration as well...
  4. Why can't shaft drives countersteer?
  5. Something to do with the rotating mass of the shaft drive counteracting the gyroscopic force of the wheels. It's really annoying.
  6. er....at the risk of sounding completely stupid...what's 'countersteer'?
  7. When, at above a certain speed, you steer the bike by turning in the opposite direction. Example, for a left-hand corner you actually turn the handlebars (and thus the front wheel) to the right. That's the simplest explanation I can give without the actual reasons behind it.

    Don't worry, you're already doing it whether or not you realise :).
  8. Doesn't work quite that way on shaft drive bikes, the rise and fall of the shaft drive unit (torque reaction) raises and lowers the rear end of the bike which acts to counter the natural counter steering input as it alters the steering geometry as it rises and falls.

    The rise and fall of the rear end causes (depending upon throttle input) either understeer or oversteer.

    Hence the commen comment that 'shaft drive bikes' can't countersteer :)
  9. when slow turning u TURN ur handle bars to the right to go to the right..

    u PULL to the right..

    ok.. once above a certain speed u PULL to the left to go right..

    as u actually PUSH down on your right hand bar.. ( figure in your mind that your also leaning your bike over aswell)

    it happens naturally..

    and theres plenty of threads around i think that have discussed it...

    a link of explanation...

  10. You can coundersteer a Guzzi, how would you go around corners?

    The new shaft drive on the Guzzi counter acts the shaft drive affect, but being a single sided swing arm plus shaft makes it a bit heavy.

    Servicing cost are not as expensive as you think as the main components for servicing are within easy reach. The valves are adjusted every 10000Km and it’s a very simple job to do not like a Jap or Ducati for that matter. Most Guziest do the maintenance themselves.

    I ride a Griso 1100 so I don't know a lot about the Breva's characteristics but if you read some of the coments on the MG-Griso forum there is plenty of info.

    Guzzies are a little different and it takes time for people to appreciate them, but if your bitten buy the Guzzi bug you will be hooked for life.

  11. No contest IMO. er6 is under 9 grand ride away, i doubt the breva would come close. Then again, we are comparing a 650 chain drive with a 750 shaftie...
  12. *looks at Loz*

    Bugger... only caught a couple that time... that bait is getting smelly :)
  13. A bloke's gotta do what he can.
  14. #14 Mordeth, Oct 16, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2015
  15. the breva looks great, kinda prefer the zuk/er6 for they're more modern designs. There's no reason a shaft drive can't counter steer or wheelie, what a load of $*#$ imho...

    The euro is almost certain to break all the time too.
  16. Yeah I'm certainly finding the Breva a tempting option (if only I had the money :(). On paper the specs aren't that impressive, power output's not that high and being shaft drive means even less is going to get to the rear wheel than with a chain. Still there's more to a bike than outright speed so if you do get around to taking one for a spin Martych be sure to let us know what you think. I reckon the extra $$$ could possibly be worth it if you planned on keeping the bike a while - I reckon a lazy 750 engine should last longer than a more highly tuned 600 (and think of the time saved not having to clean/lube/adjust a chain).
  17. Okay this is coming from a guy that put an old CX 500 back on the road and i have ridden a few guzzi's over the years all i can say is go the guzzi route mate

    I was also interseted in the er6 but did you notice the finish on the welds about the frame ??? they looked like cocky shite.

    There has been a lot of evolution in shafties over the years bmw and guzzi coming to the fore withe the evolution of floating rear diffs using the parrellogram design this has got around the torque reaction in the case of where the engine and gearbox is in line ie clutch and flywheel rotating in engine direction and at engine speed.

    In the old days before these style back ends where the norm it just meant you had a classic style riding technique you slowed down before the corner and accelrated through as you did this the back end would rise giving you more ground clearance and use the squat to assist in braking kept the back end down and weight transfer to the front end under heavy braking

    The old honda cx series got around this by running the gearbox and clutch contra rotaing so the forces cancel out most of the time but if you go bridge jumping ie get both wheels airbourne they will twist in the air :shock:

    Yep it is interesting but here is my thoughts on the matter

    from an maintance point of view i can change the oil and set the valves and change plugs in under 30 minutes did it this week end boy is it a delight to work on v twins without taking the tank off.

    And here is the rub shafties rule this is the first bike with a diff i have ever owned and to tell you the truth i aint going back my next every day bike will have to have a diff or belt at the the very least and yep it is a toss up between the bravia 750 of the f800 next and i have booked a test ride on the F800

    In the real world where most of us live yes i would buy a hayabusa tommorrow but i dont know for how long i would keep my licence or how long a tyre would last 6000 ks ??? but i know that with a bike like the bravia or F800 i would have it for the next 10 years commute, tour, have some fun etc etc and not cost me a packet in speading tickets, tyres and bloody chains and sprockets