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Knee down? how fast?

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by da_matrix, Jul 12, 2007.

  1. I regularly use my bike to commute, mostly freeways...

    Went for a spin on my twisty roads and i just realized i cant corner very well :oops: or not very fast at least. And my rear tire looks like a harley tire :shock:

    wondering how fast you have to be going to lean over enough to put your knee down and can you do it for all corners or just long sweepers (oh its a cbr250rr if that helps).
  2. It's not just about the speed needed, it is speed in relation to the turning circle. Bigger radius bigger speed needed, smaller radius, smaller speed needed.
    Also depends on-
    how long your legs are :LOL:
  3. ~ Any lean angle that requires you lean your bike 45 degrees or more will end up with you scraping you pegs which is dangerous.

    ~ You will usually get your knee on the ground at about 45 degrees or more, and even still the Moto GP riders who do this are only scathing the surface with their pads.

    ~ The reason why Moto GP riders can lean their bikes over so far is for two reasons, 1. Their pegs are extremely high on the bike and 2. they have special compound tyes to cope with such an extreme lean angle.

    So any lean angle that you'll be taking on your bike won't require you to put your knee on the ground because you don't have the racing compound tyres to do it with and your pegs are too low to be attempting extreme lean angles that require knee dragging.
  4. I assume you are a learner. Just incase you're thinking that you should be getting your knee down - stop thinking it. If you can't corner well, dont even THINK about trying it until you have alot more cornering/twisty experience - especially on a cbrr (it inspires confidence because its so easy to corner on, but when something goes wrong, you dont have the experience to respond).

    That said, the more you lean off the bike properly (cornering skill/technique stems from here), the further you are away from scraping, since the bike will be more upright, the more you lean off.

    I used to scrape alot, and get quite low. Now that I lean off far better than I used to, the bike doesn't lean anywhere near as much, yet I'm going much faster than I used to in the same corners.

    Knee down should only be done when you have alot of twisty skill AND you know the road/corners pretty well.

    I'm not trying to be arrogant by the way, just saying it how it is. (For the record, I haven't gotten my knee down, and don't intend on trying for quite a while (especially since I dont have leather pants/knee sliders)).

    But yes, you can get your knee down on any corner if you're going fast enough. The difference is for hairpins its anywhere between 30-60 depending on how tight it is. A very long sweeper on the other hand, might need 150+ to get down.
  5. Because I am uber skilled I knee down all the time - off ramps, long sweepers, CBD street corners, my driveway, the lot. :cool:
    Sometimes I even get my whole body down! Insurance isn't happy about that though.
    I'm sexy.
  6. Don't even think about trying to put your knee down until you have all the other skills mastered and even then I don't think that it should be done on public roads.

    Concentrate on getting your lines right and turning your head far enough and the speed will come with practice without having to scrape your knees on the ground.

    I've got a mate who is astonishingly quick thorugh twisties and regularly beats sportsbikes up Arthurs Seat (9 hairpins in 2.5kms) on his 1979 Triumph Bonneville because the sports guys are too busy trying to look good and think that an apex is a charity organisation.
  7. da_matrix where abouts are you from? You should hook up with some local riders who know how to corner and how to help newbies along and take it from there.

    Your cornering will improve greatly with some feedback.
  8. I can't do cbd street corners cause ive never ridden in the cbd but does it count for normal street corners?

    Getting your kneedown isn't so great. I find myself that much faster when its not down and the only reason i do it, is because i think it looks cool.
  9. You need to do it on the track.

    ... that's where the photographers are :eek:
  10. Well no - see CBD street corners are a completely different ball game. What you don't get in the burbs is he peak hour traffic. :wink: There's nothing like getting the knee down at 5km/hr in bumper-to-bumper. Haha.
  11. A Few pointers.

    1) You steer with your eyes, not your knees. First you look where you want to go. through the corner to the exit.
    2) Your shoulders follow your head. As you get better you move your upper body weight across This moves your whole center over without undermining your grip on the vehicle.
    3) Knee out Don't worry about knee down, that is just for show until you are extreme. Get the knee pointing where the eyes are this again just improves your positioning
    4) Move the bumb. By this stage you will have seen 6 months go past and should be confident with steering with your eyes. so now you position your bumb closer to the inner edge of the seat, and potentially even off the seat. But don't push it. get used to it slowly until it is second nature. by this stage you should also be focusing a lot on where your position is in relation to your line of travel, to far back and the rear bogs down and the front just doesn't track properly. to far forward and the front just goes under.
    5) Knee down is an option. But it should be a side effect not an objective. You should be watching your line feeling your position, and the way the bikes suspension and attitude changes relitive to the road. You should be light on the bars, letting the bike do it's thing and not wrestling with it. This is a state I have not yet achieved, and am not sure if I actually care about. I want to go quicker, style for the camera is something I don't care about. Above all...
    RIDE WITHIN YOUR ABILITIES the rest will come
  12. One thing that should be noted under Falcon's post:

    The more you commit to a bend, the harder it is to get out of one.

    If you dive in to a corner bum off, knee down, leaning in as far as possible and suddenly there's road kill around the bend you've got to work a WHOLE lot harder to avoid it than the person who is just cruising through.
  13. Wow!...some smart and sensible responses here.
    Listen to them all...
    Dragging a knee is not a technique you should be focusing on...there is ALOT that comes before it that MUST be mastered first...Dragging a knee is just something that happens at the more extreme lean angles for a given bike, and is not something to aim for in of itself.

    The cbrr can lean along way without the need to drag a knee - get your cornering skill properly perfected first.
  14. :shock:

    mate lean over as far as you can. be sure to report back about your stack!

    knee down on public roads= tosser
  15. Interesting to note that ex-GP riders like Wayne Gardner feel the need to note that they very rarely put their knees down on the road because it just isn't needed and the road is nowhere near as predictable as the track.
    I've found as a learner as well that having your knees out for corners makes life MUCH harder to learn. Keep em tucked in tight against the tank and you'll find your cornering improves a lot.
  16. There is nothing wrong with getting your knee down on the road just aslong as you know the road really well but as said before you really don't need to do it on the road.

    And for people that can't get there knee down and aren't use to riding that fast - you have no place to be judging it, Cause as before ITS SAFE ON ROADS YOU KNOW! If your a good enough rider you can handle most situations that come up - sure not as well as if you're cruising, but you can respond just as well as a learner would if they were taking it easy.
  17. Rubbish!

    The problem with knee sliding on public roads has nothing to do with knowing the apex point of the corner or where that bump is half way round. The problem is that public roads have other people on them, namely ignorant cage drivers.

    If you are hanging off your bike with your knee down then you have reduced your vision because your head is lower and have all your weight on one side of the bike. If a car comes around the corner with 2 wheels in your lane then you are going to see it later and be less able to flick the bike upright to avoid it.

    Knee sliding has nothing to do with going fast (I've been held up by numerous pretenders) so don't try and make out that you are some kind of Rossi and nobody else would understand.

    There's also the other point that makes joe public think we're all lunatic racer boys when they see it but I won't even start on that one.
  18. What the fcuk is wrong with you, I said on roads you know! so you'd know if there was a fcuking bump you moron!

    If your taking a left hand corner it doesn't matter if the car is in your lane cause you shouldn't even be running that wide but for the right handers, what...can't you straighten your bike up?

    fcuking shitty people with shitty reflexs.
  19. Pfft, saying you can't go fast enough to get that kind of serious lean on public roads is bollocks. Yes, most of the time you can't. But there are many where you can due to wide, open , with full vision, bump free corners. Eg. that one on old pac, you know the one I mean.

    By 'you' I'm referring to an experienced fearfree rider - ie NOT ME! :D
  20. The fun of hitting a puck at 160+ on a cats eye is an experience that everyone should share :p

    They're right - you need to know that the road is smooth enough that you can do that, your tyres are sticky enough and your skill good enough.

    Im not even close to doing it on the new bike yet and I wont be for some time. it needs a lot of confidence in your bike, your abilities and the road surface.