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Is my clutch stuffed or is it the gearbox?

Discussion in 'Technical and Troubleshooting Torque' started by C15CO, Jun 6, 2012.

  1. Hi,

    I'm not having too much luck with my 2001 NSR 150SP, I recently seized my engine (https://netrider.net.au/forums/showthread.php?t=129866#.T88GYrDv5Sk) and now I am having trouble selecting first and second gear (not sure if this related).

    Since getting the bike back on the road I have had the odd occasion where I fail to select second or I crunch into first, but as a noob I was putting this down to technique.

    After riding the bike on the weekend I noticed a slight smell but it was faint so I ignored it. In morning I tried to push start the bike - I changed my starting technique after reading on here that NSR's start better with the fuel tap off, but the bike wouldn't start and I flooded the engine (after turning the tap back on) - anyway whilst push start the bike down the driveway I noticed that first gear would engage regardless of how much I squeezed the clutch lever. The gears were really stiff too. After some gentle playing I could select all gears but the bike still engages in first.

    I have checked my clutch cable and it appears fine. I adjusted the cable from the lever end but did not bother from the other end as the lever that it attaches to on the gearbox seems to go through its full movement when the clutch lever is squeezed.

    I have checked the Transmission oil and the level and viscosity is correct (I drained and refilled).

    Is my clutch stuffed or is it the gearbox or something else?
  2. Viscosity may be low in the transmission,this will cause the clutch to bind.
  3. What grade n brand oil and how old is oil
  4. The viscosity of my oil is inline with the manual. I am running Gulf Western Oil SAE 20w/50, grade API SH/CD. I only changed the oil 2,000k's ago
  5. A sticky clutch on a cold morning is usual. The wet clutch gets cold overnight, and the cold oil is like cold honey - the plates stick together. Find neutral and start in neutral, then after a couple of minutes, pull the clutch all the way in, give a couple of sharp revs, let the revs drop all the way down to idle speed and then engage 1st with a firm, quick, positive dab.

    If you have to push start it with a cold sticky clutch, then it usually works best in 1st gear, and you prod down on the gear as you dump your weight down on the seat. It does require a bit of timing. Fortunately, you've only got a 125 2-smoker, so it should work. Try it on a cold morning, with no hill, on an XT600 with a bung starter solenoid! That's when you find out whether or not you know how to push start a bike. On the up-side, you get nice and warm.

    Not knowing what level of experience or technical know-how you have, you might find these helpful or you might not.

    Part 1

    Part 2

    Part 3
  6. Sorry.....wrong...20w base oil is way too heavy for the gearbox...will cause the clutch to drag and difficulties with gear selection

    Use something like 10w-40 or 10w-30 Motul Trans oil

    You only use 0.7L per oil change, use the real deal, not the cheap $hit.

    Straight from the NSR150 service manual.....

    Honda 4-stroke oil or equivalent motor oil
    certified to meet APE service classification
    SE, SF or SG Viscosity: SAE 10W-40."

    Attached Files:

  7. Thanks Mike. Do you think the oil has cause permanent damage or will a simple oil change improve the gear selection and remove the clutch drag from first gear?

    I wasn't too sure how good the oil needed to be, so I focused more on finding an oil in the range the manual suggested. I live in Qld so I went for a 20-50w.

    I buy my oils from Autobarn but my local store doesn't stock Motul. I've seen a lot of guys recommend Motul 710 so I was thinking of switching my 2T oil from Repsol Competicion but haven't found a Motul seller.


  8. Thanks Kneedragon.

    I think that this might be more than a sticky clutch. It's to the point that changing gears is the same with or without the clutch (but this might be normal - still very new to bikes). The weird thing is that when the problem started it was fine in the morning and got worse after a long ride. As far a push starting the bike, it's a dream, it starts on the smallest incline). I had a flat battery for a week so I got pretty good at starting it this way. The thing I don't understand is why the clutch won't disengage in first (I can hear the piston pumping if I push her in first with the clutch squeezed all the way).
  9. Thanks for the videos too. Definitely helped getting my head around how it works
  10. Synthetic motodcycle oil try supercheap
    2000 k means its due anyway
    Dont read the manual on this one...
    I am using 5w 40 atm as a trial - this winter anyway
    But beware a low sae on non synthetic is a fail
  11. I would expect no permanent damage, but in order to remove as much of the old oil as possible thoroughly warm up the engine ( a good long ride springs to mind ) before draining it.

    Sounds like your doing this tough and without much help. The pdf of the full service manual is 23Mb. IF your mail box can handle it and you want it, PM your email address.

    For a person in an isolated or MC store deprived area I have 2 suggestions when it comes to getting the stuff you want...

    1] the fore mentioned good long ride.... ( contact Cykel Products to find your nearest stockists of Motul )
    2] mail order ( to make it viable you might order multiple 1ltr packs or more than likely that would cost the same as 1 x 4ltr )
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Thanks Mike will give this a try. Thanks for the offer on the service manual, I've already got this but don't 100% know what i'm doing so I wanted to get some guidance before going and pulling things apart.
  13. Well if it's not rider technique, and your expectations of what it should be doing are realistic, as they seem to be, ... then it's time to take it back to who-ever fixed it and ask "Is it supposed to be doing this?" and "Why do you think it's doing this?"
  14. Yeah 20W is a bit high for this time of year. Also note the "SE, SF or SG" requirement. going higher than SG will have friction modifiers in it that are not compatible with a wet clutch.

    Alternatively use fully synthetic oils.

    I never use mineral oils in my engine.
    • Like Like x 1
  15. I've heard that full syn oils are not compatible with old 2T bikes and that I should run a good ATF instead. Has anyone tried ATF for a 2T?
  16. I just changed to a Gulf Western 15w-40 and have found (when cold) and in gear with clutch in, it's much harder to move the bike around than when I had the Motul 5100 oil which was 10w-40. The higher weight probably has an affect on the cold oil's viscosity but I think it will be fine since the temperature range 15W works in is well within Sydney's.

    Pop it into neutral and it will fix it. When you get momentum, clutch in and pop into second and drop the clutch
  17. Shouldn't make any difference in the gearbox. I've read a theory that old cardboard gaskets get weepy with Synthetic, but am on the fence with that one.
  18. Motul 10W-40 Transoil is synthetic, designed especially for 2T competition and other hard uses....

    what is not acceptable is oils for cars formulated with modifiers (friction etc) added....

    ...just get the right stuff, stop stuffing around trying to save $1.50...a ruined clutch or gearbox in this case will cost a lot more.
  19. Thanks Mike. Sorry if i seem like i'm stuffing around. Like I said, I'm not very mechanical. I'm just double checking my facts to ensure that what I put in the bike is right. The last thing I want is to ruin my clutch/gearbox.

    I'll go for the Motul. Thanks for your help.
  20. Ffs
    Oil change is overdue
    Change oil then continue thread
    Get it done
    • Like Like x 1