Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

Is getting your Probationary License too easy?

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by Sam&Will, Mar 10, 2008.

  1. Dear Netriders,
    Just wanted to test the waters on this one.
    I took my P's test on the weekend. I was looking forward to a day's instruction and some more advanced theory. What I got was a "here's how to pass this test easily" session, followed by the test itself. I was done in about two hours and out the door. Cornering at 30kph is not a very thorough skills test, and I'm not sure that turning left or right at 20kph constitutes a "swerve" test. I was told by my instructor that I'd have to work pretty hard to fail the thing.
    It occurred to me that this is a test which, if you're successful (and wait twelve months) entitles you to two beers, a passenger and a bike capable of hitting 300kph. I'll go on to do training with someone like Stay Upright (can anyone suggest another company?) but does anyone else think that Vicroads testing could / should be improved?
    I'm a conscious rider and have done my best to get as much experience as possible. I've done 8,500km in three months since getting my L's (I don't commute) .. and I study handling techniques / road safety in whatever form I can. Considering the obvious dangers involved in motorcycling, I naturally assumed that Vicroads would do their best to throughly educate new riders. Wouldn't it seem logical for some of the TAC budget to be allocated towards rider training (not just their DVDs and pamphlets). Vicroads and the TAC seem to put a lot of energy into road safety advertising, the upgrading of motorcycle blackspots .. but these are band aids and not preventative measures. Surely, if rider training was more thorough at the very early stages (Ls and Ps) we'd all have a better shot at saving our skins.
    I realise that there are commercial operators offering a more thorough Learner Permit course, with some accompanied on-road riding; but I would expect these sorts of initiatives to be government lead and subsidised.
    Jesus. That'll do. I'm sure you get the point. I suppose it just p-sses me off that our government doesn't appear to take rider training and licensing as seriously as I do.

  2. Agree 100% .. motorcycle training / tests are a joke to allow people on the roads and $into such a dangerous enviroment

  3. Feel free to stick your license in a box until such time as you pass an advanced course, but FFS don't ruin it for the next guy/gal coming along. Vic riders have it fairly easy when it comes to testing (and people still fail so the system does weed out certain traits) you are taught the basics and that's it. Other states may have it harder, but none of them are tested in conditions that could qualify as "real life" danger.

    To get a car license they don't make you drift round every corner, do a hand-brakey to dodge a drunken granny, and swerve into a ditch to avoid a head on with a drugged up truckie... No, its a nice calm drive, where you show you can do the basics, and prove you have the ability to go forth and learn on your own.

    Which is what its all about.
  4. totally agree dude - the current Licence test is outdated and missing real world skills/tests (I did it a couple months ago).

    There should DEFINITELY be a one or two day instructed ride out on actual roads as a pre-requisite to completing the test. Obviously this would increase the cost of licencing but as you mention, surely part of it could be covered by the Govt if they're actually serious about saving lives - but maybe they're currently more focussed on @ss clown stuff like front plates (=toll cash) for their own benefit..
  5. Sam divulged that:
    I just gotta say mate that I'm glad ta hear it..........tend ta fall off the bike more often when you're unconscious, I know........ :p :p

    Only gaggin', and I agree wit ya.........
  6. "Welcome students, today we're going for a gentle ride"

    (vroom vroom)
    Suddenly from a side street a granny barrels through a stop sign and runs down five of the students.

    "Congratulations to those of you still alive. You have passed our real world test. Mrs Mac, try to get the blood off before the 4.30 class starts"
  7. Sorry for grabbing your line out of context, Bonkers, but that's the bit that disappoints me about car testing: We aren't tested on emergency situations for car licenses.

    I was really impressed that during my Vic motorcycle learners and P/full sessions at HART, emergency braking and emergency swerving were drummed into us constantly. And emergency stops around corners.

    (I can't speak for the people you went with, but HART did a lot more than "this is how to pass the test!", I felt. Cornering techniques above and beyond the basics of the P's test.)

    Car licenses don't involve emergency stops or any sort of advanced car control. To do that sort of thing you need to do an "advanced" car control course. <sarcasm mode on> And only professional race drivers need to know advanced car control - because my car is just a magical pod that takes me from A to B, and I put petrol in it once a week and that's all I have to do to maintain it! <sarcasm mode off> :roll:

    I did find the Provisional test remarkably easy on the bike. But I really appreciate the "emergency situation" bias the bike license has over the "A-B magical pod", "wow, you can do a hillstart in a car with an automatic hill-holder!" treatment of the car license.
  8. I couldn't agree more. We spent half the day going on a ride, stopping and listening to the instructor talk about the threats we may have seen while riding. I learnt a lot that day.

    I'd be quiet though, not because you deserve more training, because the government hasn't realised there's a chance to squeeze some more dollars out of you.
  9. The point is you cant go 300kph anyway, the test is for riding slow on the public roads mate
  10. We have a democracy in this country (or so they tell us). You have every right to take the issue to your local member, if you feel strongly about it.

    You might get lucky and they do something about it. Like all things though, its a sell job to get what you want.
  11. The current tests & education are a good start. But, yes I agree with you, more thorough education needs to be put in place for all road users.
  12. im going for my P's tomorow ... :(
  13. but at least on the car test you do go out onto the open road and have to deal with real traffic conditions. The bike test doesn't even get you out of the car park FFS.
  14. Ah c'mon people, do you want to stuff it up for everyone? Motorcycle tuition and testing is currently so, so much more than we've ever had in the past.

    Just how much tuition do you need before going on the road? In Australia we wait until riders reach a certain age, so a certain amount of maturity is expected already. You ride like they tell you, and you'll be fine.

    What a bunch of pussies !
  15. It used to: once around the block and if you lived you had your license.
    The experts decided that this was a better, safer system in a controlled environment.

    And Vic has a much lower road toll per million people than any other state bar the ACT - so we must be doing something right.
    Maybe someone can find the actual break down for L and P plate riders which would be a great help...I'm quite open to an informed discussion rather the a BS political one - in other words one where we are being seen to be doing the right thing rather than doing the right thing.
  16. Who told you that?

    NSW is also lower than Victoria, per million. Interestingly, having worked in Logistics in both NSW and Victoria we have a much, much higher "Incidence Rate" than NSW - trucks involved in collisions. Some of our runs, especially the city and inner city runs take almost twice as long to complete due to terrible road planning, backed up streets and traffic congestion due to other collisions.

    It's also my understanding, speaking to a friend who works in insurance, that claims for motor vehicle insurance are higher in VIC than NSW. She doesnt' have access to NSW figures, so it's only anaecdotal. Victoria can be held in high esteem for a lot of reasons, but it's collective driving ability isn't one of them.

    Both states are doing well compared to others, such as Queensland, who managed, after a lengthy year long campaign called 300 during which more speed cameras were erected, national advertising campaigns etc... to raise the road toll by 16%.
  17. But unlike with a car, when going for your bike P's you've been out on your own on the road for at least 3 months, so if you're still alive by then, at least you can slightly deal with traffic.
  18. Without knowing it I was looking at an earlier years chart (my bad for not reading it properly).

    This chart seems a bit more accurate:

    Though it really means jack without a breakdown of motorcyclists/Ls/Ps etc.
  19. ROFLMAO :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: , What a test that would be....
  20. in England, I had to do a CBT (Compulsory Basic Training) course to get my L's. Off road the same as here teaching the basic handling skills. I've got no issues with this at all, and frankly I think it's something the cars drivers should do.

    To get my full license I had a 45 minute accompanied drive, with intercom so the examiner could give me riding directions. This was in traffic and around town so I could be assessed in the full range of riding conditions. Even included emergency stop. To me this is a MUCH better plan than simply repeating the initial off-road stuff for a second time. This tells the examiners exactly nothing about how anyone can actually cope in the real world.