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Irrational fears about motorcycles (held by Non riders).

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' started by jdkarmch, May 14, 2012.

  1. I had an interesting discussion with one of my Harley Ride passengers yesterday.

    She said, "There are more motorcycle deaths happening now, aren't there" or words to that effect.

    She seemed to be of the opinion that more motorcycle riders were dying or being injured that ever before.

    She was quite surprised when I explained that on a per-capita basis, it has never been safer to ride a motorcycle. I then went on to explain some facts about the TAC. She now understands - that all the TAC say is not quite true or accurate. And to cap it off I was able to demonstrate how a motorcycle is safer than a car - and that you can't fall off a moving motorcycle.

    Tick - one more person converted by demonstration and explanation.

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  2. Re: New TAC Ad - "Slowing down won't kill you"




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  3. Re: New TAC Ad - "Slowing down won't kill you"

    Believe it or not - I can demonstrate the certain benefits that a rider has over a car driver - that a rider can utilise to keep themselves out of trouble.

    I rarely drive a car these days. I feel much safer on the bike than I do when I am driving a car. You are blind inside a car. Much easier to stay out of trouble when you can actually see everything around you.

    By your WTF - I assume you are referring to the skill set that makes riding dangerous if you have not mastered that skill set.

    The bike is not dangerous - its an inanimate piece of steel - that is incapable of harming anything by itself. Its what is between the ears of the person riding the motorcycle that can be dangerous.

    In my case - I feel safe because I have mastered the skill set required to stay alive and out of trouble.

    I hope that clarifies my earlier statement and look forward to further heated debate:angel:
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  4. Re: New TAC Ad - "Slowing down won't kill you"

    Did you try opening your eyes during the time you were driving? It helps tremendously.

    Saying motorcycles are safer than cars is stupid. All things being equal, saying a rider is safer on a motorcycle than a driver is in a car is stupid. It's a one way street, there is no argument, there is no other option. And any further than that I won't be arguing with you because it's a stupid premise to start with in the first place.

    Saying someone can't fall off a moving motorcycle is just as stupid. Again, no argument necessary.
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  5. Re: New TAC Ad - "Slowing down won't kill you"

    I suspect that what John actually means here is the irrational fear that a lot of people have when they first ride pillion that it's very precarious and they'll fall off. It is. in fact, remarkably difficult to just "fall off" a bike unless you crash - even as a pillion.
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  6. Re: New TAC Ad - "Slowing down won't kill you"

    Just as I thought - you have missed the point of what I said.

    BTW - its the motion of your bike that keeps it vertical. You fall off it when its stops. I stress - you can't fall off when its moving. Try it some time - you can jump off - but fall, I don't think so......

    Read what I said again. You are not a frequent rider, are you? That's the problem we face. You can explain to someone all you like, and its not until you have them actually on your bike, as a passenger, that you can actually show them what you are talking about.

    And - yes, I have even taken to people who hold a current motorcycle licence, and opened their yes to what I am talking about here.

    That's the whole problem with the TAC - they are just like you, they can't see it....(what we are saying) But, when they actually are in a position where we can demonstrate it to them - that is when they come to understand.

    I said I was looking forward to heated debate - thank you for being the first of a long list](*,)
  7. Re: New TAC Ad - "Slowing down won't kill you"

    And to add to what Tony just said, I have had several of my Harley Ride passengers go to sleep on the back of my H-D, while on a long ride Day Trip to the 12 Apostles.

    They tend to rock forward, and wake with a jerk. One day my passenger kept kicking me. When we stopped for a coffee break, I asked him why? He apologised saying he had nodded off.

    And the best passenger I have ever had? A kid with Cerebal Palsy - no strength in their arms to hang on tight. But not a problem in the balance stakes when we got going.

    Believe it or not:angel:
  8. Re: New TAC Ad - "Slowing down won't kill you"

    And who says Harleys aren't boring.

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  9. #9 Ljiljan, May 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2015
    Re: New TAC Ad - "Slowing down won't kill you"

    I hope you made the most of getting the last word in.
  10. #10 jdkarmch, May 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2015
    Re: New TAC Ad - "Slowing down won't kill you"

    OK, I'll buy into this.....

    Read what I said Again.

    In this example the rider failed the skills test that I was attempting to describe to you.

    What I said was that you can't fall of a bike that is in motion. Clearly - here the bike's motion stopped and its stability impaired - at which time the rider fell off, due to their lack of cornering skills.

    In the normal process of riding a bike and as long as you don't break the rules of the Riding Skill Set, then you can't fall off.

    However, if you haven't mastered the Skill Set - as is the case in this clip - then yes you and your motorcycle may part company.

    IMHO - riding a bike is all about avoiding situations where you are likely to experience things like this clip. A bike allows you much better, in fact far superior to a car, ability to read the road ahead and all around you. This means that you are very un-likely to fall off if you have mastered the necessary Skill Set and you use the all round visibility your bike provides for you.

    By reading the road ahead, I mean getting your cornering correct, selecting the right braking point, applying the right amount of counter steer, looking for changes in road surface, other vehicles that may cause you problems, animals running out into your path etc. This is all part of the Rider Skill Set. You master that, and you will never fall off.....

    Now that I've re-explained it to you again. I'll sit back and wait for you to have the final say. I've got a lot of time on my hands and am only too happy to re-state things BTW. By all means show me some dumb ass youtube clips where some idiot has failed the Skill Set. Doesn't prove I'm wrong - just proves they can't ride......

    Maybe someone reading this may even learn something from what I am saying - that may help them avoid a high side etc.:angel:
  11. Re: New TAC Ad - "Slowing down won't kill you"

    You had better tell Heather that,

    15,000 kays on the back of my Bird, She would have been asleep for at least 6000 kays of it,
    Including Icy creek road, falls creek, Mt Hotham. Tawonga gap road, Murray Vally Hwy, Etc Etc,

    She has her hands in my jacket pockets, But the Tap Tap Tap on the back of my lid from hers says she's dead to the world,

    If she slides one way or the other, I just tap her and she wakes up, Which is rare,

    I had two mates who rode the same bike, Who ever was on the back was always asleep,

    No one ever fell off, and thats over thousands of miles,
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  12. Re: New TAC Ad - "Slowing down won't kill you"

    To paraphrase:





    You talk some utter drivel sometimes.
    My friend fell off her MOVING motorcycle on Monday. Oh wait - she hasn't mastered the 'Skill Set' of stopping first and then crashing.
    How far was it you needed to stop from, what was it, 150Kph down the straight?
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  13. Re: New TAC Ad - "Slowing down won't kill you"

    Thank you for that verification. I was beginning to think that nobody would believe me.

    The reason they don't slide left or right is because of the "momentum physics" involved. Imagine if you throw a stone - it follows a straight trajectory. Same applies for your pillion - they are being propelled in one direction and that is why they don't fall left or right - even in corners.
  14. Re: New TAC Ad - "Slowing down won't kill you"

    Yes drivel it may be. But I know I'm right and you are wrong. Deadman just confirmed that......
  15. Re: New TAC Ad - "Slowing down won't kill you"

    Maybe some clarification.

    A good rider is safer on a bike than in a car.

    Maneouverability, vision, hearing - heck even your sense of smell come into play when you are on a bike. In a car in traffic, your options are so reduced that you are effectively a passenger.

    Sure if there is a crash (and there are no 'accidents') you have a higher chance of injury, but a good rider is able to avoid the crash in the first place, by being aware of everything that happens around him (or her) and taking approrpriate action.
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  16. Re: Irrational Non rider fears about Motorcycles.

    Thanks to the mod that broke off this discussion from the tac thread. Its an interesting discussion but i was reluctant to reply and risk derailing that thread.

    A few conversations that i have had with non riders.

    1. A guy (on the small side) said that he would be physically not fit enough to be able to steer a bike into corners. Had an interesting chat about how its all weight and countersteering and very little force (generally).

    2. My colleague the other day said that she heard that you could ride with no hands and was surprised. I said yeah if you have cruise control you can just steer with our body (not legally of course).

    Interesting both were under the impression that steering takes a lot of effort on a bike. Maybe that is a car centric view where even with power steering steering is harder than a bike physically.
  17. Re: New TAC Ad - "Slowing down won't kill you"

    There is some weight to that argument, if you are in a car and a semi comes in too hot to stop behind you, you are dead. On a bike, you might be able to lane split out of the way, or dump he bike and dive onto he footpath.

    A lot of the risk that is perceived by the stats as well is by the natural tendancies for riders to be risk takers hence to compare risk stats for both forms is not fair.

    I wonder if there is crash stats for licence holders of both to compare car and bike.
  18. Re: Irrational Non rider fears about Motorcycles.

    My boy Lachie often falls asleep on the Strom. Usually after lunch, wherever there are twisties!
    Hang on.....

    Yep he's still here!

    Do You actually ride Lilley?

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  19. Re: Irrational Non rider fears about Motorcycles.

    It's interesting the preconceptions people have isn't it?

    Most people have ridden a pushbike at some point, I usually try to equate it back to that prior experience.
  20. Re: Irrational fears about motorcycles held by Non riders.

    It is very hard to simply fall off the side of a moving motorcycle. My son, like other pillions, regularly falls asleep and doesn't hold on, and he hasn't fallen off yet.

    What isn't hard, is to crash a moving motorcycle.
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