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N/A | National Ireland on thin end of wedge to mandatory high viz

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by robsalvv, Jul 1, 2013.

  1. If you're a learner rider in Ireland you have to wear a high viz vest/tabard spelling that out... and now a high viz vest/tabard is being considered for Probationary riders as well.

    I'd like to know, where is the evidence that this is a protective factor in any way??

    = = =


    27th June 2013
    [​IMG]Whilst we have just reported on the recommendations by France’s National Road Safety Council to the French Government on the carrying of Hi Viz vests for French motorcyclists, MAG Ireland, the Irish Motorcyclists’ Action Group, reports that in Ireland novice riders will have to wear a fluorescent “N” tabard.

    The announcement has come as the Irish Government published the road traffic bill 2013, which includes other “road Safety” measures including increased penalty points for speeding, use of mobile phones while driving and not wearing seat belts.

    The bill will introduce the concept of a “Novice Driver” for the first two years of a newly acquired licence.

    Novice drivers will be required to carry an “N” plate, or in the case of motorcyclists, to wear a fluorescent “N” tabard (similar to with the current requirement for an “L” tabard while riding on a learner permit) for two years.

    The report from MAG Ireland states that Section 4.1 (a) of the bill says: ” …in the case of a motorcycle, there is displayed on a yellow fluorescent tabard worn over the person’s outside clothing the letter “N”, not less than 15 centimetres high in red on a white ground, in clearly visible vertical positions to the front and rear of the person’s torso…”

    MAG Ireland are asking the question, “This then is either the thin end of the wedge for mandatory high viz for all riders, or a genuinely beneficial move which will reduce motorcycle casualties depending on your point of view.”

    MAG Ireland are now currently examining the bill as published, and say they will be publishing their considered response in due course which not only covers Hi Viz issues.

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    • Like Like x 1
  2. LOL @ "N" = Noob ... the Irish have a wicked sense of humour :ROFLMAO:

    Maybe the powers that be thought an over-vest would be less likely to 'fall off' like them plastic plates.
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Maybe they're taking it from the IoM TT and other selected Irish Road Racing events were 'newbies' have to wear Hi Viz?

  4. Hopefully they just think that the plastic plates ruin your tail tidy! I actually agree that a rider based identifier should be an option, rather than a little plate. It would be visible from the front -- same as car L-plates.
  5. Funny ! L plate P plate N vest whatever the only people who take notice of this are motorcycle riders and cops .

  6. Careful, the front-number-plate crowd from Vic will get ideas.
  7. So new riders can't have a backpack then.
    Just how is anyone going to read a letter on your chest ?

  8. Make 'em a set of fake tits and people will see 'em
    • Funny Funny x 1
  9. If you patent 'motorcycle boobs' I will buy shares
  10. #10 cjvfr, Jul 1, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2013
    It's an interesting tack on hi vis by stealth. I agree @robsalvv I don't know of any credible evidence that Hi Vis assists to any great measure in rider visibility. There is surprising few studies, one NZ study I can find http://www.bmj.com/content/328/7444/857

    Nearly 20% of control drivers were wearing some type of reflective or fluorescent clothing. Drivers wearing reflective or fluorescent clothing had a 37% lower risk of crash related injury than those who were not wearing such materials

    Oh no! there is that 37% figure again.

    Identifying new riders seems to make them an active target by other road users by general report here.
  11. It would be helpful if MAG Ireland can get their government to produce the evidence they based their decision on (IF indeed there was any).
    That would tell us a lot about what the overall agenda is. Probably a Frenchie/EU thing although it wouldn't overly surprise me if the trail led back to Victoria...
  12. Yeah, it's the cultural differences that make stuff like this hard to comment on.

    In Sydney, an L plate seems to be treated as an invitation to "come monster me".

    Maybe in Ireland, they are nicer to learners, provided they can identify them?

    Giving the Irish the benefit of the doubt, this is unlikely to be the thin end of the wedge, as, if they end up with all bike riders wearing Hi-Viz, it would stop any (potential) benefits for learners and novices standing out from the crowd.
  13. An interesting comment there CC about cultural differences ... also difficult to research other than as a qualitative project and thus open to a level of derision by the qualitative crowd.

    They have what, on the surface, looks like quite a well formulated GLS and even publish their IBT doc (Initial Basic Training) which is an interesting read. >>

    http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Learner Drivers/IBT/CBT_INITIAL _SYLLABUS_Sept_2010.pdf
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. So if you come off and are lying in a ditch people will read Z and think you are having a little rest
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  15. Vicpol have a submission in.

    A simple target roundel is enough, and is understood by motorists

  16. Yup.

    Even within Oz, there seems to me to be a marked difference between the treatment, in terms of being gentle with, and considerate of, L-platers, depending on location.

    In Sydney, and I assume Melbourne and Brisbane, the general traffic is so busy and the selfishness of the drivers and riders seems to result in L-platers not getting a fair go, while in country towns learners get more consideration.

    Now, this is just my opinion, and I may well be wrong, but I don't see any likely way of researching this.

    Does anyone else think this is true?

    Aye, looks pretty good to me.
  17. The only thing I can contribute is that there are big geographical differences in driving attitude within greater Melbourne, let alone compared to outside it. I don't want to start an intersuburban flame war so I won't go into details, but some areas are more aggressive than others.
    I cannot think of a country town that is much better, but frequently they are slower moving and easier to dodge. You'd think the risk of harming someone you actually know would have an influence in really small towns.
  18. L platers anecdotal reports suggest that they are harrassed by drivers. I've heard that a lot.

    On the topic of hi vizzed riders though, one L plate rider, a 40+ yo gent, told me that he was harrassed more often when he wore his high viz vest than when he didn't. He rode a naked bike and reckons that when he wore his vest he could be more clearly delineated from behind which allowed drivers more time to plan their overtakes... and resulted in drivers cutting their margins more finely. (Risk compensation??) He also thought there was a bit of plain old bullying and hate against an L plated rider - or hate against motorcyclist, but a hi vizzed rider was even more pitiful and bullyable.

    But then another older fully licensed gent had the opposite story to tell. And others note no difference at all with or without.

    It would be something worth conducting a proper study about.
  19. In my experience the more 'aggressive' I look and act, the more room drivers seem to give me. Wearing hi viz isn't an aggressive look.
  20. Oh, no, please.... not another Collingwood support joke. :)

    The country towns that I know/knew quite well were all in NSW, and there was a good degree of.... "oh, yeah, that's my nephew.... he's a bit of an idiot, but we give him plenty of space." kind of attitude.

    The slower moving, less stress and more space business of country towns surely has to help with bike learners?