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Interesting info on safe filtering

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' at netrider.net.au started by northerner, Jul 30, 2011.

  1. Here's a link to info from the UK based MCN on safe filtering etc. Thought it might be useful for some on here - I know it's been discussed to death but...

    Just remember this is from the UK so the bit about it being legal isn't necessarily true for Aus.



    http://bit.ly/o1HqtB

    Graham
     
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  2. legality in Aus has been discussed to death.
    how to filter safely has not. which is a pity.
    same techniques can be applied here, just need to be more fast and aggressive in application, as some cagers believe you are doing something illegal and will use their vehicles to deter you.
     
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  3. I was once such a driver. Then someone pointed out that it was just a bad attitude toward those who weren't stuck in a cage, so I changed my attitude. Since then I took up riding, so now I'm the guy who the cage-dwellers get annoyed with...

    Thanks for the info. :D
     
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  4. This is making have a good think about my own riding style ... I have been hatching this theory that differences in speed between myself and other vehicles introduce a risk ... i.e. risk of entering blind spot, risk of approaching from behind unnoticed etc. Further, I have been thinking that the greater the difference in speed between myself and the other vehicles, the greater the introduced risk.

    To illustrate, when everyone on the freeway is doing the same speed, it feels very safe - almost like things are happening in slow motion. In this scenario I tend to sit in the lane, maintain safe distance in front and behind, ensure I stay out of blind spots and am not beside another vehicle, and all is good.

    But if there's a rear end collision ahead and the lane beside me grinds to a halt, this whole scenario suddenly becomes very dangerous. Other vehicles start looking for opportunities to change lanes; vehicles start to behave unpredictably, tail gating, braking, speeding up and slowing down, trying to work out what is happening and trying to decide whether to change lanes. Also in this scenario, from the cagers point of view, I am no longer a motorcycle maintaining a predictable position relative to their vehicle. I am now suddenly "appearing from nowhere", entering and exiting their blind spot before they know I'm there, etc.

    You could almost say that it is sometimes (often?) not speed that kills, but differences in speed.

    What the hell is KN crapping on about I hear you say.

    Well now I'm thinking, if I'm gong to filter should I:

    1. do it in a way that minimises the speed difference between myself and the cages (i.e. "slowly" relative to the other vehicles); or should I
    2. do it quickly to minimise time spent in blind spots and perhaps minimise any opportunities for cagers to be jerks and try to block me off?

    As a side note, I need to pick and choose my filtering opportunities a bit more than the sports bike riders; the bars on the KLR are fairly wide and - if I filter like a bull at a gate - the risk of taking someone's mirror off, or clipping the side of a truck and ending up under its wheels, increases.

    KN
     
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  5. I recall a few posts about speed differential issues, so if you filter at a high rate of knots, the chances are higher someone will do something un-expected because they have less opportunity to see you, and you also have less time to react to these situations..

    So far I have not come across anyone deliberately blocking me or behaving aggressively when I was filtering, having only been riding for close to 11 months now I can't say I have the deepest experience pool, maybe I have just been lucky so far..
     
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  6. Give it time.... ;)
     
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  7. Well I'm glad that I've been doing nearly everything that this article says, also a few helpful new tips that I hadn't taken into account and one thing that I should not have been doing, although I kind of knew it already (splitting between the curb and cars). Here's another tip, upgrade the horn on your bike and use it as a warning device, which is its intended purpose, when splitting. I might have to buy a copy of that book.
     
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  8. Speed differential is the killer. Not necessarily speed itself.
    Even on the track. As most bikes have a very low speed differential, it often feels like you could tap another rider on the shoulder, midway through a 200k corner. AND because you've probably been racing with them for quite a while, and a trust has developed. As in the motogp.

    Anyway, on the roads if you stay just a little faster than the cars, you can move through them in relative safety. The article is correct for the speed differential when filtering.

    Even when you fall off...and unfortunately hit an imoveable object... It's the speed differential that is going to kill you. That's why you hang onto the bike for as long as possible...every second you can stay on the brakes reduces that differential, and increases your chance of survival. And reduces the level of possible injury.

    I can't say enough about this.

    But there is always a point where speed is just to high, and your time might be up, aim for the gap in the trees, the softer looking part of that embankment etc. You'd be surprised the difference it can make!

    While you are still on the bike keep braking or just keep leaning, over, over, over... I've pulled off a few 'Miracles', and come out the other side, by keeping my head and refusing to give up on myself. Above all, you HAVE TO ride the bike as long as you can, because once you and the bike have parted company, whatever your tragectory was, can no longer be changed. You are helpless.

    Throughout the whole ordeal, you must mitigate damage to yourself, and speed reduction, is one of the 2 primary goals. The other being, "avoidance". It's nice if you can ride it out. :)

    It takes focus and cool, to keep actively riding all the way to impact. It's a controlled crash, much better than an out of control crash.

    And for the idiots out there, no, of course it depends on many factors and obviously if you have lost control and the bike is heading for a huge gum tree, try to throw yourself so 'you' don't hit it.

    Case in point.

    This bloke was chasing his mate, and gaining from a fair way back at around 2.50k. By trajectory he figured his mate who was tight on the corner, would have to brake earlier for what appeared to be through vicious wind buffet, about a 1.60k corner.

    So he hung out wide, intending to take a shallow angle with space across the bough of his mates bike. He had left his braking till very late, to make sure he would be well clear of his mate, who by now he had flashed past.

    But there was a problem. The corner was MAX for about 1.40, and as he had left his braking a smidge too late and was still doing 1.80

    he pitched the bike over aggressively, knowing that he needed to turn a hell of alot harder than expected, but it was too late! Running wide he trailed the front brake to get the speed down...by now, way across the oncoming lane, at extreme lean angle and the front feeling mushy (grip going away), he was out of road with only a swath of huge gum trees coming.
    He pushed over harder, eased off the brake a bit, to allow for it.
    With the inside peg dragging hard, and less than 6" of bitumen remaining, he managed to hang right there, with possible life in the balance, and now the corner was opening up, more bitumen was under him, and he kept it cranked over to get back onto the correct side of the road, well ahead of his mate, and pitched it over into the next turn, and back the gas again, per normal riding.
    He told me it was close....had he run out of bitumen, he would have been torn to pieces by the trees and killed.

    It's a classic case and an example of why you keep your head and ride the damned bike, no matter what! Had he given up on it, he'd be dead.

    Would speed have killed him? Nup. The 'speed diffential' would have. Speed, in of itself, is harmless, unless something goes wrong, as it did in the case above.

    Yeah ok. Shutting up now.
     
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  9. That is THE BEST thing I have read on Netrider in ages, Raven - thanks!

    KN
     
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  10. There's a two page spread on filtering in the current 2-wheels issue as well, but they don't really discuss anything new.
     
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  11. 2 billion threads on filtering/splitting ok??????
     
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  12. brilliant reading raven, have had the same issue when riding in the hills, thought i was done for, back was sliding towards oncoming traffic.. could have tossed it but stuck it out and won. and learned from my mistake.

    Only way to learn is to first make mistakes.
     
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  13. Just to be a little more real about speed differential, consider it as a general rule.
    Clearly, while it applies always, once you get above survivable impact speeds, it really does'nt matter too much. Ie: 2.00 into a tree. It's a bit silly to talk speed differentials then, if you get my drift.
    But for general riding, it can be more useful to think in terms of speed differential, rather than your actual speed. Doing 1.00 when everyone around you is doing 30k, even though it might be a 1.00k zone, does'nt look so smart anymore, even though you are'nt exceeding the speed limit. The speed differential in that example is bad news.

    Out on the open road we are used to travelling at 1.00ks. Our practised judgement and reactions to things has us hovering at a pace that can be quickly washed off, by a reasonably experienced rider. We can quite effectively get down into the 40-60k area, so even if we were to hit something stationary, there is a chance we wont be killed.

    Now, think of doing the same from 1.60 (Purely hypothetical of course, because we at NR generally are'nt ones to be breaking the rules. Right!) anyway, doing the exact same thing from 1.60, and you are'nt going fair so well, because the impact is far less survivable at the higher speed.

    I'd hazard a guess and say that while many of us might be able to keep a bike under proper control at a panic stop from 1.00k, not many of us would be quite so capable of a panic stop from 1.60k. Some may even fall off trying to do it. (track work is the cure for that).
    You may be asking, what's that got to do with anything?
    Why are you panic braking?...because you just got confronted with a major speed differential, and had to wipe off speed urgently, trying to get it down below the "kill zone".

    Think about it as you ride around, you may find that you see things through different eyes.

    "speed differential"
     
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  14. I'd be interested in hearing you expand on this bit, John?
    While I won't forget the feeling of popping up from under the screen at 1.80 in a hurry, I did kinda think the technique would be the same...
     
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  15. i've done it a 160k. took a very long time to stop. or rather a long distance. and it was mostly a fishtailing rear wheel skid. just dose'nt take much to lock the rear at that speed.
    so i consider it pointless. if i'm riding on the freeway i don't cover the brakes or set up for braking if i see something dodgy ahead. swerving is the only option in my opinion any speed over say 100kph. braking won't save you.

    and i'm on the freeway a lot lately. and i only slow down for cameras.
     
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  16. that was a 600cc on a track, during a course, controlled conditions, fully supervised.
    i think it was compression lock up that lost the rear. from memory i was trying to blow up the engine on their gutless POS hornet on the day.


    (on the road, unsupervised, i'm considerably more mental)
     
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  17. How do i say this without it seeming like I'm having a go at you, apologies if i cant.
    Rear brake lockups are more about rider control than 'braking is pointless'.
    If the brakes lockup, ease off the pedal, same as you do in a car, if the wheel is sliding you have minimal control, and you are not slowing down as fast as you could be, Yes swerving around obstacles on the freeway is a good defensive technique, but used in conjunction with careful braking it works even better..
     
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  18. Moved to riders tips following a twisty rough road
     
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  19. Someone once told me a really good filtering technique... Stop next to a cute chick and give her a wink! You won't have to "accidentally" scratch her car to get her number, and if she doesn't give you her number, she isn't impressed. It's really good at filtering out the ones who aren't interested! :rofl:
     
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  20. I have, they crept forward and to the side so i wouldn't be able to fit thru. What they didn't realize was the car behind them hadn't moved forward which left me a nice decent gap to switch sides then go past them lmfao!
     
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