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VIC Insurance Claim Advice

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by erewego, Jun 16, 2011.

  1. Well, 5 yrs of no claim has come to an end.

    I was riding home this morning I was behind this guy on a ZZR and he came of on a straight flat road, not wet and no oil. I came off after I hit the brakes too. (corner claradon street and whiteman street)

    So, insurance claim time. cosmetic damage and damages hand and foot control. on the right side.

    I need to claim against the guy. but the chain of events make it a bit iffy because I was behind.

    I was at least 2 cars length.
    I did not hit him. I lowside trying to avoid hitting him after he came off.
    It was approaching a left turn where cars would generally slow down and bunch up.
    I was really not expecting someone to come off where he did.

    I called my insurance company and they advise me to contact his insurance company first. However I dont think that guy has insurance. WHY WOULD YOU NOT EVEN HAVE 3RD PARTY!!!

    So, I was kind of wanting some advise on whether I should claim against him through my insurance company.

  2. Politics section has proforma letters of demand. Start with that.

    From an insurance point of view, you caused your own accident and hence would be at fault. I don't think your insurance would follow through with a legal battle to recover costs from the rider or the rider's insurance.
  3. Do you have comprehensive? If so ring your insurance up, tell them to stop being lazy and sort it out themselves. This is what you pay them for. You shouldn't be having to send letters of demand etc.
  4. Sounds like he doesn't want to lodge an at fault claim.
  5. Thanks for your feedback Rob. Good to hear from you.
    When I spoke to the guy from my insurance company. He has to ask someone to clarify a few point and then came back to confirm that I did not collide with him. What he said hinted that , but I would have learn to not take anything that insurance people say at face value.

    I am going to speak with that guy tonight to see what he wants to do. He was saying that if the guy does not have insurance, to put a claim. I suppose I might just do that. Thats what I pay insurance for. and I can get my bike looking like new again.
  6. Yes guys, I do not want to put a not at fault claim,

    the damage is cosmetic, but it will cost me a fair bit. to fix it up.
    after considering the access, it MIGHT not be worth putting in a claim and affecting my no claim bonus.
  7. If the insurance company is classing you as at fault - particularly given you were following it will be near impossible to prove trying to take it to court yourself. The obvious defense will be that you obviously didn't give enough room in front to safely stop in time etc. Word of warning that you will be pretty hard pressed to be in a winning position, coming from behind so to speak. If they do have 3rd party insurance - the 3rd party insurer will most likely argue that you are responsible for your own damage etc and that the rider in front going down, isn't responsible for the person behind.

    Most insurers allow one at fault claim without it affecting your no claim bonus anyway.

    Your insurer wouldn't be classing you as not at fault for this, as they already know that they can't reasonably win the case if it went to court.
  8. thanks for breaking it down for me. That was what the person from insurance indicated to me. then he went away and came back asking if there was collision, it seems that its not so clear cut now.

    It is really hard to swallow that because of some noob ride I have to fork out $400. access. I think I am going to see about getting a quote and put a claim.

    seriously how can someone come off on a straight road. without hitting anything.
  9. Hold there a sec.... Because of something that happens in front, and you emergency brake, but come off it is their fault? Personally I think there is probably a more fundamental issue at play here. Personally, I attempt to ride at a distance where I can safely stop if something happens in front.

    This is how the insurers would view it - i.e. that it is the person's responsibility when behind to ride at a distance where they can safely stop, if an accident happens in front.

    This probably is the key sentence. No one ever expects themselves or others to crash. I'm just wondering if there was more that could have done leading up, to avoid you going down as well.
  10. I would be saying that you would be found 'at fault' based upon the fact that there was no collision, you were behind and you crashed as a 'possible result' of not leaving enough room to stop safely.

    It is the same as running up someones butt after they slam their brakes on.
  11. I do keep a fair distance. I always have. There is at least 2 cars length I can be sure of that. it was a situation where it was approaching a left turn where traffic usually backs up.

    I am not looking for vindication, I am looking for how the insurance would assess this and that is exactly what I am getting, so I thank you for your feedback.

    When I ride, I always expect people to expected things. However in this case, it was truly unexpected.

    I hate being punished for things that are not my fault. but such is life.

  12. Like you did?

    Sorry, couldn't help myself.

    You're screwed in terms of insurance, & I'm pretty sure you're screwed in terms of a LOD too, given you & he didn't actually collide.
  13. 2 car lengths... So lets say 10m. At 60kph which is roughly a touch above 15m/s. So you are looking at 0.67s behind the nearest rider.

    You aren't leaving enough room. Back to insurance - this is why they would class you as at fault for your damage.
  14. hmm...I had the choice of running over him.

    i do think I am screwed. I think I will put in a claim and let insurance screw me. at least I will be able to have a nice bike.

  15. what is a reasonable distance for insurance to assess that it is not my fault.

    And can I put in a claim and if they decide that it is my fault I drop my claim?

  16. Generally the advised following distance is 2-3s in the dry (I was taught 2, others were taught 3). - more in the wet. So 2 seconds, at 60kph is 33m. Easy way to figure it out though - just watch the vehicle in front go past a point on the road and count till you cross that same point.

    From memory, for group rides - 1s is suggested but with the bikes in a staggered formation.

    If you come off from behind it is still going to be your fault almost no matter what (except maybe if you are cut off and someone then slams brakes on) - but a 2s following distance is almost always enough. Of course, that is best practice. Ultimately - if you can't stop quick enough if the vehicle in front was to suddenly get in an accident - then you aren't far enough is the general guide.
  17. Well, if you came to a complete stop without hitting him or crashing, then you were travelling at a reasonable distance. If the then guy stood up, walked over to you, and the fell against your bike knocking it over, he would be responsible for your damage.

    That opens a can of worms. The insurance company will then want proof that you have repaired the bike to original condition before next renewing your insurance. They will keep a record of the claim anyway, and I think if you change insurers they will expect you to declare it when applying for insurance with them. If you have a crash in future, and they know of this crash then they will look very carefully at any damage, and may not do a full repair of the bike at that time. Or they may reduce any payout.

    These situations are extremely frustrating, and we all know that in traffic it is impossible to drive at a distance where you can always stop before hitting the guy in front if he suddenly stops, say by hitting a fork lift truck coming out of a side street for example. But that is what the law expects. It makes no assumptions about how quickly the vehicle in front stops.

    BTW, while I sometimes travel at two, or even one car length behind another vehicle, I don't feel safe at less than three car lengths, which at 60 Km/h is only one second. Of course that distance is hard to maintain in traffic, since someone will fill the gap. So we have to remain ever vigilant.
  18. looks like I got screwed for getting out of bed today.
  19. Depending on your insurer they might offer no-claim bonus protection. Some people allow you to make 1 claim a year without affecting your no claims bonus. Some will just increase your premium, cancel your insurance or hike your excess instead though, so tread carefully...
  20. Everybody does but surely you can see by now that that is not what's happening here.

    Your crash, going by what you've told us was entirely your own fault. You admit that you were following at a distance that anyone here will tell you is far to close, especially in an inner city area where other drivers can be highly unpredictable. You failed to leave enough space to stop safely and failed to ride in a manner where you could reasonably avoid an accident as you are legally obliged to do.

    You cannot blame the crash of a rider in front any more than you could blame someone for slamming on their brakes. As the vehicle behind, avoiding the collission safely and without crashing yourself was your responsibility.

    I'm sorry if I'm being very direct about this but others have tried hinting and it sounds like you're not taking it in. The other rider is not liable for the damage to your bike becasue he did not cause it. If you choose to chase him for the money yourself, he will win in court and claim costs from you.

    It is time now to reflect on your own riding and how you can avoid the same thing happening again. Many have suggested that a 2-3 second gap is far more appropriate and I certainly agree with them. You may also want to reflect on whether you are effective in constantly identifying your escape routes when riding in trafic. Even with a sensible gap, stopping may not be the best option so you should always be aware of the gaps and have a plan that allows you to ride around a hazard or move away to escape danger. After 5 years these are skills that you should have a good mastery of, however it is also possible that having not crashed to this point that you have become complacent or over confident. I don't know and I'm not suggesting this is the case, but I am asking you to contemplate it and reflect on the possibility.

    Crashing always sucks big time, but it is always also an opportunity to reflect and learn. I understand that you're not happy about the incident but rather than seeking to place blame on someone else, you may be better off in the long run to spend that energy on redeveloping your skills and thought preocesses to avoid a repeat event. Sorry again for being direct but I'm sure you understand I'm not trying to rub salt into the wound, I'm just trying to help without wasting our time using tact or discretion. :)