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Increasing power on 2009 ninja 250

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' at netrider.net.au started by max pwr, Nov 5, 2008.

  1. My wife has a new ninja and after only 1000ks it is already evident that the power is somewhat lacking and will not hold her interest for years to come. However, otherwise the bike suits her and she is keen to explore the possibility of spending maybe a couple of thousand dollars upgrading power output. Has anyone got experience or heard of anybody successfully increasing power substantially over stock on these machines?


     
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  2. If you want substantial power increase, apart from the obvious "get a 600".

    If she is still on lams, sell it and put that extra 2 thou towards an aprilla RS250. Depends when she got her L's as to weather or not she can ride it.

    Or, get a LAMS motard, like DRZ400SM, or KTM525. Or even the same bike that i ride. A GS500.

    Spending money to get more power out of a 250 is like putting a body kit on a hyundai.... its just not worth it in the end.
     
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  3. just note the 525 isnt a motard and isnt LAMS in most states. ie victoria. but may be in brissy.

    but old matey speaks the truth when he says its much better to spend the cash on another bike. you wont get 2/10ths of fcuk all out of the 250.

    having said that. she may be "over" the power in a week. i was over the across in 1 day. yet i rode it for 9months and the more i rode it the more i appreciated the power it had.
     
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  4. RS250 is not lams. 2 stroke 250cc are not lams.
     
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  5. As slicknchghia said - we "get over" the power pretty quickly, of any vehicle... I was like slick; after 3 months I was bored of the acceleration of my VTR250 but 10 months into riding I realised that it was fun for reasons other than the 1/4 mile time.


    For bikes, there's no replacement for Buying A Faster Bike frankly...

    A muffler and intake and re-jetting of the carbies will make bugger all difference aside from lightening your wallet by about $600 and making the bike sound faster. Modern 250cc bikes - particularly the inline-4's -are pushing the limits of streetable horsepower/litre output as it is.

    For $5000-7000 you could probably fit a small turbocharger or supercharger, but for the same money you could just buy a bigger new-ish learner legal bike, or wait until off restrictions and buy an entire 10 year old CBR600F4i with even more power, better suspension, better brakes and better reliability than a modified 250cc bike.
     
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  6. We don't have lams in qld. My wife is barely 5' tall and she likes her bike and wants to keep it. If we can get another 10-15hp out of her bike I am sure she will be happy. Really just wanted to hear from people who may have modded a similar bike to hers.
     
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  7. Well, let's look at it this way...

    A 32 horsepower VTR250 makes peak torque (2.4kg.cm) at 8500rpm, peak power (~32hp) at 10500rpm and redlines at 11000rpm.

    A 40 horsepower CBR250RR makes peak torque (2.4kg.cm) at about 11500rpm, peak power (~40hp) at 14500rpm and redlines somewhere around 16, 17000rpm.

    To gain 8 horsepower in peak power without force-feeding the engine, you'd need to push the torque peak up a few thousand rpm and get the engine spinning a heck of a lot faster; significantly past its existing redline. And/or increase the compression ratio significantly and give the ignition advance a nudge, forcing the bike to run 95 or 98 octane.

    That means a new ECU (eg: Power Commander, $500) to carry its tuning well past where reality normally ends for the bike. Plus the cost of dyno time to tune it.

    You'd need more aggressive camshafts to push the torque peak up to 12000rpm. Don't know how much they cost for motorcycles, but for cars camshafts are usually around the $1000 mark.

    You'd probably need to review the lengths of the intake runners and exhaust headers to help it breathe at its new torque peak. Another few hundred dollars at least.

    You may need to upgrade the engine internals ($$!) and valve springs, and balance the engine ($$!) so it can survive its new redline.


    So, $2500+ in modifications just to get it to CBR250RR / ZXR250 / Across 250 power territory. In doing so the bike will lose most of its low-end torque, making it peakier and harder to ride around town.

    Turbocharging or supercharging could make for significant gains, but again that's not a cheap option (and possibly not learner-legal?)



    Ultimately... Is she concerned about around-town acceleration, or overtaking at speed on the freeway? If it's just off-the-line acceleration, changing the sprocket sizes for shorter gearing is a relatively cheap solution (at the cost of freeway-cruising comfort).
     
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  8. sorry but theres no way you will get 10-15hp without blowing on it
     
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  9. An aussie delivered 1995/1996 Suzuki Across will give you the extra 10-15Hp you wish for.
     
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  10. I know, but it depends how the QLD system works, cause they don't have LAMS. If they only have a 260cc restriction, she can get one.

    I can legally ride an RS250, even though i'm on my p's, cause i got my l's and p's BEFORE July 1st, when lams came in, i can ride ANY bike under 260cc, AND i can ride ANY victorian listed LAMS bike.

    If she is in the same boat, or since she doesn't have LAMS, if she has the 260cc restriction, then she can ride one :)
     
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  11. Get a GPX-250R, not sure why the new versions (baby ninjas) have less power but cost more. Must be great working for Kawasaki.

    As said, you aren't going to get anything out of that bike, change to a learner legal bike with some actual go, or get a larger bike.
     
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  12. Need more power? Revv it higher doi! Don't forget the engine is still being run in, give it another 1000kms or so and the bike will likely feel a bit better.

    I'd bet anything she isn't giving it much stick and just wants more low down power, in which case - its a 250 so nothing you can do will give it a great midrange.

    The old ones have about 1-2hp more, but that power is delivered higher in the powerband, the new ones actually have better midrange according to dyno comparisons
     
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  13. Not worth the $$ - as others said, wait until she can get another bike
     
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  14. +1 to phizog. Once she learns to keep it in the revs, and ride the tits off it, she'll be having a bucket load more fun. If she wants to mash the throttle in a gear that's two cogs too tall and expect it to go somewhere she will have to wait for a bigger bike.
     
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  15. i am still curious in what situations she needs more power? Power on cars and bikes, like anything you upgrade and that power becomes dull and boring (more you just get used to it) so no matter what you do, she will get use to it and want more, we all do :wink:
     
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  16. That reminds me of why people want more power from a bike when they can just get a more powerful bike

    The manufacturers did the same thing back in the late 70's early 80's

    Eg Suzuki made its RE 5 rotary that gave as much power as a 750, but it weighed a tone and had all these cooling gizmos on it to stop it from overheating

    Kawasaki made its GPz750 Turbo, (which I like by the way) but it only pumped out as much as the 900r

    Same for the Suzuki xn800, Honda cx500 turbo etc

    what’s the point of adding modifying and spending heaps of money to make a smaller capacity bike to give it as much kw as something a few cc's bigger, that will last longer anyway

    anyway, get a bike you like, my choice has never been about looking for the fastest, if i wanted something faster there are plenty out there, some cheaper than what I paid for mine, some a lot more, but i like the bike on what it looks like and how it fits me and feels like, power comes in last place for me, I would get a smile on my face plodding around on this

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Weight, although in this case its licensing restrictions. Qld has 250cc max for a year, regardless of 2/4 stroke.
    After a year, you are not automatically upgraded, but have to do another test (on a big bike this time). 1 year is a long time.

    The Ninja 250r has about 25 or 26hp at the real wheel. You might be able to put on a better flowing pipe and get it dyno tuned/jetted, and get an extra 1-2hp. But you loose midrange. Your best bet would be to upgrade.

    Pre-1994 cbr250rr's make 35-40hp at the rear wheel. It also weighs about 9kg less than the ninja 250r. But they are old and probably would need a tune. I use one to commute, its reliable if you look after it.

    The RS250 is probably the fastest option, but its a two stroke and apparently very temperamental. Puts out 55-70hp. But pretty unrealistic for street use (unless you do street racing :wink: )

    Interestingly, the previous model (gpx 250r) made about 26-27hp, but it weighed about 13kg (at 138kg) less than the ninja 250r, which is why the new one (151kg dry) feels so slow.

    So yeah, I'd probably tell her to live with it for the next year or so and then upgrade her to a bigger bike, funded with the previous one. Although you'll probably only get a little over half back.
     
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  18. Ironically, I would bet she would complain about the RS250 being even more gutless, given the lack of a broad power band.
     
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  19. +1 :LOL:
     
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  20. Those things can get around real quick once you know how to ride 'em. Tell her to stick with it and stop sookin'.
     
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