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VIC I'm a menace!

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by raven, Jan 12, 2009.

  1. I was up on the Black Spur last Saturday...(Cops everywhere)

    No big deal, I was mentoring and unlikely to be travelling faster than 70 k's most of the time since I was with a pretty fresh rider.

    We had achieved about 6 laps...passing cops each time, but in particular 1 patrol car that was cruising up and down the length of the Spur. Funny thing was...I was thinking how much of a waste it was, as their was literally NOTHING happening...I mean not a single thing even close to anything noticeable, did I observe in a few hours of riding...

    With the inexperienced rider in front of me, we came across a slooooow car...I mean 52-60kph..No biggie really, just impeding our progress and messing wioth the training...

    We exited some of the tighter corners onto a straighter section (the straight section down the hill to Ambulance corner), and my partner eases past the carat leass than 70k's....once he was clear, I also eased past the car. Just as I was beside the car, that patrol car comes into view heading in the opposite direction...by now I am passed the car, and slip back onto my side of the road.

    I did get caught beside the car for a second or two as they accellerated once they go on the straight section (eurgh!)...but at the same time, I had enough momentum up to still just ease past without a flourish of activity.
    THAT relaxed passing style put me a little closer to the approaching cop car, than I would have chosen, but I was out there and needed to proceed...I did'nt even bother feeding in more gas as I was already going to be passed in time.

    A kilometer down the road, the patrol car (which must have done a screaming U-ee, and took off after us, races up behind with his lights and sirens blarring....(at this actually time we are on a long straight section and doing 72kph.)...

    I waved the rider in front off, and pulled in with cops in tow...

    The exuberant ossifer jumps out and races up to me..."what's your reason for overtaking in a dangerous manner?"......I said "WHAT!!?...Nothing dangerous about any overtaking I've done"...to which he replies..."well I had to take evasive action to avoid you"...I said, "mate...I eased past a car doing 60k's at less than 70k's on a straight section of road and your telling me that THAT was dangerous!!??"

    I started laughing...he asked me for my licence etc...then fines me for "overtaking in an unsafe manner" $187, and 2 licence points....
    (I won't repeat here what I then said to the copper) ^$#%@!!...

    I'll be seeing him in court, as I'm not going to take their overexuberance and lying to justify a technicality initiated simply because last week-end another rider had a head-on with a car, and they are out there to herass riders in an effort to fly the flag in the name of being seen to be doing something.

    Fair cop if it WAS a bit risky, but I never felt in danger, (and I'm the one who is the most vulnerable in the situation)....and there simply was NOTHING UNSAFE in what I did.

    So...here we go again...you've got every right to be there and be left alone to do it, but they want to push your buttons, and engage in what I consider something close to herrassment...

    I used to think that if you were riding sensibly and doing nothing wrong, then the cops would appreciate it, and SHOULD leave you alone...but nowadays...they'll just use you as the fall-guy for their slow day...

    I'll be back there next week-end to take a few snappies for the court case, and they can piss off and leave me f*** alone as far as I am concerned.

    Rant over...:))

  2. #2 grue, Jan 12, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2014
    Governments are like the media: If they can't find a problem, they'll create one.

    Nobody to blame but ourselves for repeatedly voting nanny state idiots into office.
  3. Hoon You nothing abut ahoon John. :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

    Good luck with it all. They are trying to ruin a great road/ride.
  4. Good on you Raven for standing up to the police. I agree with taking it to court!

    The only issue that might work against you in court is if you verbally abused the cop - since aren't all instances in which a person gets pulled over Video & audio recorded now?
  5. [​IMG]

    keep us updated.
  6. The prick was probably frustrated due to not having any reason to pull anyone up that day.
    Good Luck on Court Day John !
    Sorry I couldn't make it. Got as far a cockatoo, when the effects of pain killers & antibiotics started to kick in, making me feel 'fague'. Decided it was afer to head back home.
  7. The abuse shouldn't have affect on the outcome. If he can prove that he was riding safely then that should be irrelevant. The issue is if Video shows a different version to Raven's if there is video.
  8. that suxes john.....goodluck with the courts, i get the feeling your going to need it....
  9. Honestly, what is the point of all the policing? I counted seven different marked and un-marked vehicles up there on the weekend (and I didn't do Reefton). I don't recall the last time I saw anything that warranted anywhere near that kind of man power.

  10. Hmm, I wonder how the cop passed the same car to catch up to you :-k .

    Sounds like that cop was sent up to the Spur for the express purpose of booking people for anything, however lame or fanciful it might be.

    Good luck fighting it.
  11. :eek:

    I reckon that's definitely the vic police being a little overzealous. Raven was out mentoring for cheeses sake!

    Anyway keep us posted! Good luck John :grin:
  12. I hope a judge sees it logically. There is no such thing as a litre bike passing a car with a 10km/hr speed differential whilst there is any danger of a head on collision. If there was even an instant of arse puckering Raven would be getting a speeding ticket, not a ticket for dangerous overtaking.
  13. got stopped for a licence and rego check on chum creek on Sunday. the cops said they had been brought in from Dandenong for an "operation". probably related to the fatality on the spur last weekend.
  14. Raven that sucks mate. The POL POL sometimes can be absolute pricks when you tell them they are wrong (especially if it was a highway patrol, and one that isnt from the area - a tactical team that goes from area to area depending the needs - regular cops hate them too as they just cause problems then move on), and the police have absolute discrection I think when it comes to things like dangerous driving/overtaking unsafely/Failing to stop at a stop sign etc. As it will come down to a version of events, yours vs the POL POL, the courts almost always side with the 5 0. The cop will have a fairly standard statement that he had to take evasive action, thus an unsafe move and it will be very hard to beat. like when a cop asked why did you choose to pull this car over for a RBT: I noticed the car move from the left of the lane to the right, then back to the left again. I pulled the car over and administed a RBT. blah blah.

    Given all your safety posts on here, I could not see you doing something unsafe - unless by accident. I will chat to a mate who might know a thing or 2 about how to fight a charge like this and see if he has any advice.

    A good start would be some character witness statements from people that you ride with.. e.g. school teachers/lawyers/doctors/Community leaders maybe. That support how safe you ride.

    You could also have your member of state parliment to represent you to the police minister in the matter - you right a letter on the situation, your local member then writes a covering letter and sends it on. Might be easier then having to go to court (and you still have the opportunity to go to court if you are unsuccessful). In NSW, if you live an "Upper Class" suburb, you will often get off compared to living in a bogan area. I was amazed, I know of people getting of several fines from the 'castle hill area' in sydney which is fairly expensive housing, vs my one and only speeding infringnment when i was living in the 'blacktown area' got told unsuccessful, pay the fine - bastards!
  15. All you can do is tell the truth and hope for the best, getting some legal advice would be a good idea too, even if its just to learn how they make their decisions so you know how to manipulate the outcome a little better.
  16. as it only takes me about 15 or so mins to get to the spur, and i dont work, i spend fair bit of time out there. if anything i think the cops r the menaces! not all of them, just most, mainly those in cars. they come smokin around corners, overtaking other cars on corners, the way the pull into the little slips of gravel on the side of the road at a stupid speed and just slam on the brakes, they are the hoons they are supposed to be stopping. i was there saturday and went past a cop car parked on the side of road on one of the 40km corners, not long after on a stretch i look in my mirror and could see him about 5 cars back, i had no one in front of me so continued on, in under a minute, somehow through corners he managed to be on my tail! they jus dart through traffic, straight or twisties reckless as. unfortunatly one day they will wipe out a biker....
  17. Let us know how this goes mate. I'm interested to see if there is any practical way to defend the charge if it depends only on his word and opinion. Sounds like they were up there with the express purpose of writing tickets.

    It seems to me that if they want (or are under orders) to sting you they can pretty much do it on a whim. Can any of our legal minds offer a point of view?

    One thing I would consider might be to go up there and actually measure the length of the straight, and the distance you could see before he came into view. A few facts 'n' figures on your side mightn't hurt?
  18. Tramp will have some advice.

    Here's my non professional advice, so treat it with the respect that deserves.

    The burden of proof is now with the police officer.

    If you want to manage this on your own, lodge your objection to the infringement notice and then wait for the charge and summons. Or to show the cop you're serious, send a registered proof of delivery personalised addressed letter to the police officer regarding the infringement, that you objected on the side of the road, that you have lodged an objection to the notice and that you would like the police brief on the matter so that you can prepare a proper defence.

    There are other standard processess and all the literature on line suggests that you follow things in their way, those processes will occur anyhow...

    The cop has to prove by statement/ eye witness account that you over took in a dangerous manner.

    How close was the cop car when you slipped in front of the car?

    From the cops point of view the perspective is all wrong for him to assess anything much. You could easily question him and shoot holes in his story since a bigger car and a smaller bike will look pretty close to an oncoming vehicle, especially when slipping back in front.

    Oh, and I'm not sure you'd want the lawyer I had... if you're going the lawyer route... get someone with some road/physics smarts in addition to their legal smarts. Try the one that the MRAV always advertises, Grace someone or other.

    Good luck mate. Fight the power.
  19. #19 Chef, Jan 12, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2014
    I had a similar situation when i went through there recently. Trying to pass a slower car while maintaining the posted speed limit saw me hanging out in the oncoming lane longer than i felt comfortable with.
    And at the exact same point of being committed to the overtake a car crested the rise coming the other way. I calculated that i could safely complete the maneuver without cause for evasive action, which is what i did with time to spare.
    However i was surprised to see the oncoming car had slowed right down as i went past. Obviously the driver didn't feel safe at all.
    So i found it quite ironic that while i followed the road rules to the strictest letter of the law, it actually made myself and other road users feel less safe.
    Whereas if i was 'allowed' to have given it a twist when i saw the car, everybody would of gone on their merry way.

    My question to the orificer would of been, how would he have expected me to have done any different. Because there comes a point in an overtake where it is more dangerous to attempt to brake and pull back in behind the car, and we're not allowed to accelerate above the limit to get out of there. It certainly cuts the margins a little finer.

    I think you'll do fine in court Raven, as I know you'll put together a well thought out and articulate argument in regards to our side of the story.

    If i could offer any advice it would be this, get someone to do the talking for you, as you have a bit of a temper :grin:
    And i wouldn't use the words mentoring, teaching, guidance, instructing etc. If i had to pick one, I'd probably go with helping the other rider. But i'd be guided by my lawyer on that one too.

    Good luck, have fun and kick arse. :wink:

    Oh hell i forgot to add, yes you are a menace. A damn fine one at that :cool:
  20. Thats true-ish. An officer can issue an infringement notice purely on his / her own judgement that you did something wrong. If you don't contest the issue, you are deemed to be admitting guilt and the officers word is deemed to be true.

    If you do contest the matter, it goes to court where you are innocent until proven guilty and the burden of proof rests with the charging officer. You don't need much to create 'reasonable doubt' in the mind of the magistrate.

    Good luck Raven. Keep us posted.