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If this is true why the hype?

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by dalemation, Oct 22, 2006.

  1. [Soap Box]
    This is taken directly from the South Australian Police web site:

    More pedestrians die than motorcyclists! I say ditch the covert camera's on George Rd and stop those hoons on the foot path!

    Seriously though we touched on this topic at the last coffee night here in Adelaide. Being the sort to take things said with a pinch of salt, I decided to do a bit of research.
    It's true. We count for only a small portion of the road toll.

    The realy surprising fact is that there are more 30~40+ year olds dying on bikes than 18~30 :shock: (I can't find the page for that one at the moment :roll:)

    So why the hype? Why the added efforts and tax $ to catch us?
    Granted there are a few among us who "treat the road as a race track" but sit on the side of the road and see how many Commadores and Falcons tear past...

    Why dambit why?? Catch the hoons and leave alone the people who just enjoy the ride! :mad:
    [/Soap Box]
  2. Amen to that mate, I'm really tempted to rav on about how the Commodores are often more hoonish than the Falcon's, but I guess that'd just be my Ford loving side coming out to play :p But seriously with facts like that... Covert speed camera's are nothing but revenue raisers. I'm not sure who said it now, something about police prescense or marked speed cameras, but the marked speed camera's sounds like a good idea to me.

    I'm not personally a speeder, I enjoy tottering along on the bike, most of the time its cars passing me, but it does annoy me with all this revenue raising business and the idiodic reasons behind it.
  3. Remember we are only a tiny minority of road users so these figures actually mean we are over-represented. The fact we receive so much 'attention' from the authorities is also the result of us being a minority - we are much better target for them, less likely to fight back, and less effective if we do. Being politicians, they would rather piss off the smaller group...

    The other day I read a comment from some 'authority' to the effect that drivers are often not very attentive on the road, so bike riders should receive more training' Hello? My conclusion would be if that's the case, DRIVERS are the ones who need better training. But that would be too politcally unpopular, wouldn't it?
  4. I was watching "Over The Hedge" with my daughter the other day.

    I got a chuckle out of the scene where this woman is driving a large 4WD, hot coffee in one hand, talking into a mobile phone in the other, and saying "Of course I can talk right now, I'm only driving!".
  5. I know if you continue your research you'll also find that of the pedestrians who die, something like 30% of them would blow more than 0.05 if they had to take a breath test.
  6. Found this report from SA

    From Page 3
    Motorcycle riders are especially at risk – on a per kilometre
    travelled basis, they are 30 times more likely to be killed on our
    roads! Riders younger than 40 are at even greater risk. The trend in fatalities suggests that motorcycling safety is lagging behind
    improvements for other road users. And compared with overseas
    countries, Australia’s motorcycle safety record is poor – we have
    nearly twice the fatality rate of other OECD countries

    From Page 4
    This ratio is higher for younger riders. Motorcycle riders under
    40 are 36 times more likely to be killed than operators of the
    same age driving other vehicles on a per kilometre basis
    whereas those aged 40 years and over are around 20 times
    more likely to be killed (see also Age of Riders, page 4).
    Is motorcycling becoming safer?
    The ATSB study found that the rate of motorcycle rider
    fatalities per 100 million kilometres travelled had increased
    among all age groups:
    • The largest increase in the fatality rate was in the 26–39 age
    group (57%)
    • The smallest increase was among riders aged 40 and over

  7. We've kicked a few of these stats around before, and I think where we got to was something like 'you're about 30 times more likely to die in a prang if you're on a bike than in a car, but you're about 10 times more likely to prang in a car than on a bike, so it's more like 3x as deadly on the bike'. Add to that the stat someone quoted here the other day (but off the top of their head) that 30% of bike fatalities are unlicensed riders...

    It's as someone said: ride to beat the stats. Drinking and riding makes you more likely to become a statistic, as does riding much too fast for the conditions, not riding defensively, riding without proper protective gear and so on and so on.

    The authorities' priorities are definitely split between enhancing safety and collecting revenue, but at the same time, if you look soberly at the laws that are being enforced, in general obeying them would reduce our death risk. (Choice of things like *where* to enforce, on the other hand, is more likely to be influenced by revenue.)

    Part of the issue is not even so much political expedience and picking on the smaller group, but just practicality. Sure, the fair and just thing would be to force drivers to be more attentive, give them more training, fine them for inattention and driving while phoning and so on. But efforts in that area, while they exist, would require a quadrupled police presence on the road to even start to make a difference... so riders need to ride as though drivers are out to kill them, through negligence if not malice.
  8. Agreed.

    I work in road safety research (mostly looking at older drivers and pedestrian visibility).

    There was a funny article a while back in Accident Analysis and Prevention that talked about building bridges without guardrails. After all, driving off a bridge is a behavioural issue, why should it have a technical solution?

    Changing the behaviour of a lot of road users is hard, changing the behaviour of a small group is easier, implementing a technical solution is easiest of all.
  9. I don't know about that. I believe just using the presence they already have would bring results if it was used properly, but police resources are absolutely squandered on doing anything but what is supposed to be their job. Apart from that, almost everyone would agree that training our potential drivers get is inadequate. The cost of decent training would not be that much higher than the cost of substandard one, especially considering the savings it would bring down the track... except, in political terms!
  10. Driver training is actually a bit of a thorny issue in road safety - particularly for young male drivers.

    There is some evidence that suggests that emergency maneuvre training just increases confidence in younger drivers without a corresponding increase in skill. Awareness training would be better but it's a harder skill to teach.

    Graduated licensing schemes (with appropriate enforcement) are well worth looking at. After all, we already do them with bikes (the LAMS scheme and 250cc limitations).
  11. Hey dude
    NRMA refers to this age group as "living the dream"


    Also those statistics are correct, but they have been manipulated.
    mra website

  12. Of course if you are on a bike and crashs it's gonna be worse than if you were in a car, thats just common sense, there is nothing to protect you.
    This is not what I'm ranting about.

    What Cathar and cb250goespop posted is in the essence of my anger.
    We have to know whats on the road, whats next to the road, whos on the road, weather the road is going up or down a hill, camber, :blah:
    Car drivers don't even pay attention to whos on the road. And we are the "Dangerous" ones? We are the ones who need more training?

    I went down that evil George Rd yesterday at the recomended speed... and was bored s***less.
    A van, which was in front of me for a while, was all over the road, looking at the scenery.
    I nearly had a head on with a rather nice looking convertable Ferrari in my lane... All while traveling like a stoned chimp...

    If I could ask one thing of these police and politictians is:
    We take responsibility for our own saftey every time we throw our leg over the bike. We are aware of the dangers! Please don't baby us!

    My comments on age were just an interesting fact I thought I had found not all that related to my rant.
    But my comments were wrong, sorry.
    The stats I was looking at were serious injurues, even then I had my wires crossed..

    Source Road Safety web site
    Sorry for the mix up every one! :oops:
  13. victoria is introducing staged licensing for car drivers in january next year.

    it features new requirements for L drivers, a P1 and P2 ystem., adding one year onto the P's scheme.

    heres my pickle...i just brought a car (pick it up tomorrow) i am 20, yet only have my car L's as im a motorcyclist, not a driver (yet). if i get my P's before january (rushing it aye?) i will not have to complete the extra year on he P's. but if i get it in january, before i am 21, i will have to complete the extra year of the P's. or i could wait untill june next year, when im 21, and i will ony have to do 3 years. saving 6months off my P's, yet having to wait an extra 6 months to get them. complcated huh?

    all information on the new licensing system for victorians can be found here www.vicroads.gov.au (click the link on the home page for new licensing requirements)
  14. Behind every RTA/VicRoads statistician, there's a rebellious daughter who ****ed a biker.
  15. as much as i enjoy being a part of a minority... if everyone had to ride a motorcycle for 6 months prior to getting their license... they either: would be too stupid to pass and we'd be safe. would be more aware and we would be safer. and they'd actually notice bikes.
  16. Well there goes the "old geezers getting back into bikes and killing themselves" theory, right out the window!!

    Quick straw poll of a fairly representative group, how many Netriders are over 40 and how many have had accidents in the last, say, 2 years, as opposed to how many are under 40 and have had accidents? (Not counting those who've been Loz'd, of course :LOL:)
  17. It's politicians and public servants protecting their income. Say you were a farmer of... sheep, so to speak, you would do everything in your power to prevent the little furry critters from jumping off that cliff. But now you've gotten extra cautious: you've stuck a boundry hundreds of metres away from that cliff, and nice green grass is just over the fence line. But each sheep that sticks its head through that fence, you cut its legs off. Sure you can still get fleece off it (tax)... fill in the gaps, this is starting to head down little bo peep lane...
    Anyway, by increasing fines and lowering speed limits, they have shifted focus from ageing and inadequate infrastructure. Plenty of money being made, little (although some) of it is being reinvested in the road systems.
    here endeth my pointless rant.