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If the Police can't, what chance do we have?!!??!

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' at netrider.net.au started by pointsless, Apr 20, 2009.

  1. First off, Mod's, if this is considered a rider down thread please delete, but I feel it isn't.

    A Motorcyclist was killed this morning when a cop was doing a U-turn in heavy fog.

    I was riding through Woodend this morning at 6am, and can remember that I could not see the street lights when I was under them, and could not see car headlight at all until they were 20m close... It was terrible. The fog was that thick, the moisture would build up on your visor over a period of 15 seconds, and what remaining vision you had would turn into a blur before wiping your visor.

    [vic][speculative parts of post removed]

  2. Yes it is a rider down post but it is also in the public interest since it was police officials involved
  3. Wasn't there and maybe shouldn't speculate, but why would anyone do a U-turn in the conditions described by 'pointsless'?
    And why would anyone be riding fast enough to get killed if they hit something in those conditions?
    Just goes to show how vulnerable we are on bikes when things go wrong. We need to use our roadcraft and manoeuverability to increase our safety margin, not go faster.
  4. Well this morning there was a cop spokesperson on the radio who was more than happy to speculate that, despite car doing u-turn, despite fog, yep, you guessed it... "speed was quite possibly a factor".
    So guess where the finger was being pointed.
  5. Anyway, accidents happen. Tragic, worst conditions to ride in but unfortunately pulling over to wait it out isnt very practical. Speed may well have been a factor, at least, speed relative to the conditions.

    What would you do in that situation? Slow right down, and risk a rear ender? Or maintain pace and, I guess, pray? Or pull over?

    Any thoughts on how we can avoid ending up like this, or is it seriously just a damned if you do/dont scenario?
  6. I think its easy to blame the car driver coming from the point of a view of a rider as on the surface, doing a u-turn in bad weather like that doesn't seem like the safest move and a cop should know better.
    However it is possible that the rider wasn't riding to the conditions too.
    Of course the cops are going to defend their own, its only natural. Just as many people here will defend the rider but until we know exactly what happened the only thing that matters is that is there was a live lost and no amount of finger pointing will change that.
  7. Easy now, theres no bias in that article either way, which is sadly suprising.
  8. I was pinged by TMU doing a U-turn on an overcast day after rain on that same road, only a few hundred metres south of Woodend.

    Why did I get pinged?

    I crossed double lines - which I didn't notice because the road was wet and glary. What REALLLY p!ssed me off is that I had no idea why I had been pulled over until the copper told me I had crossed double lines, and having done PRECISELY the same thing behind me in his unmarked black Holden SS ute he told me that it was unsafe to make a turn on that road hence the double lines.

    3 points and $165. First and only traffic infringement I have been issued.

    I would be VERY interested to know the exact location of the accident. Speed or no speed, the driver of the car may well have crossed double lines and made an unsafe turn. The letter of the law states that it doesn't matter whether you have no traffic on the road for 5 minutes, or a thousand galloping wilderbeasts, no U turn can be made.

    I know the road very well and once out of Woodend it is either an 80 or 90 zone depending on distance. There are no sharp bends, and if it was that early there would have been lights visible, or glowing fog visible for a considerable amount of time.

    If that was the case, the driver/officer needs to be hauled over the coals. They killed someone.
  9. I live in woodend.

    My girlfriend and I arrived upon the accident at approx 5:45am this morning, before the police or emergency services had arrived, they arrived about 5 mins later.

    Not going to describe what I saw except the location of the accident.

    For those that know Woodend, as you come out heading back towards Melbourne, you come out of 80kmh and hit the 90kmh zone. Then about 100 metres later you peak the hill and run slightly downhill before the gentle left at Brick Kiln Rd.

    It was pretty much half way between that peak of the hill and Brick Kiln Rd that the accident was located when we arrived.

    Coming home this afternoon I had a look to see what the road markings are like in relation to double lines etc. And it while most of the run from Woodend to the Calder seems double lines, in and around the area of the accident there does seem to be a few places where the double lines are broken.

    I'm not commenting on the accident as I didn't see it, these are just my observations.
  10. I hope it was a legal turn.

    Cops get it wrong just like we all do.
  11. Thanks for the info.

    Hope you're not going to have demons to deal with from this one. Would have been confronting to say the least.
  12. I'm probably not getting back on the bike the rest of the week. Just need a bit of a break before climbing back on. I'll be sweet though.
  13. This morning I woke up to my alarm radio which for some reason unbeknownst to me had tuned itself into Magic 1278 (AM). One of the several news bulletins that I heard before I slammed my hand down on the snooze button was

    'Motorcyclist collides with vehicle'

    Now my initial thought was that some bloke suffering from a Monday morning hangover had gone wide on a turn and hit head on with a car, or the like. Then my brain kicked into gear and I realised odds were it was a case of 'vehicle collides with motorcyclist', motorcyclist dead and vehicle driver suffering a case of SMIDNSY. :roll:

    You may think I'm getting a little pedantic about semantics, but I reckon the media are assholes who in an attempt to maximise the effect of a headline will happily distort the truth at a minority group's expense. :evil:

    Do me a favour and next time you are talking about a traffic collision involving a motorcyclist, make sure you use some loaded terminology along the lines of 'car driver kills motorcyclist' to compensate for media jackasses like those on AM radio.

  14. I'm not sure about what it was like over in Woodend this morning, but out south east and definitely on the eastern freeway the fog was terrible, one minute you were by yourself the next a car would become visible 20m in in front of you.
  15. It is a tragic event.

    The Snout, I'm sorry you had to witness the results of this event. A collision can be traumatic enough without it involving a death. There are services out there to provide help and or just act as a sounding board if you feel you need to unburden. Not every one reacts the same but just be open to the idea that even if you feel okay it doesn't hurt to speak to a professional.

    All the best with getting back on your bike.

  16. Of course speed was a factor. It's one of those ridiculous throw away lines our police force use. If the rider wasn't moving forward, the accident would not have happened. But most people don't dissect it like that, they just think 'stoopid ....., going too quick', without thinking about it any further.

    I particularly love how a police spokesperson, an hour or so after the event, has a diagnosis of what really happened. But any other crime or accident (like the refugees off WA) takes days of careful analysis before anything is mentioned. Apparently in those cases it's to ensure that due process is followed and no court cases are jeopardised. But when it's a bike or car accident, within minutes of it occurring, the old bill are on the radio telling us how and why it happened.
  17. From the vision on tonight's news

    MOD: No speculating please.
    Comments like "from the looks of the photo the vision of tonight's news etc." are speculative and will be edited

    Thank you for your understanding.
  18. Ahhhhh, So you knew exactly what she could and couldn't see?
    If visibility was as bad as depicted then maybe she couldn't see the double lines? disoriented perhaps?

    YOU for one do not know what happened and whatever conclusions you draw are worthless.
  19. Beat you to it by a few seconds there I reckon Vic :LOL:
  20. quicker than jessie james