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I was "ill" today and fined for 'stuff', any cause for complaint?

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by undii, Nov 23, 2010.

  1. Hi, I had an incident today, after a great days riding, I felt "off", short story, I followed a car in front of me overtake on double lines so I followed. I can take the fine(s) like a big boy but as my following story has, I was somewhat "under the weather" but the cop didn't seem to care. Wondering people's thoughts, can I do any sort of official complaint? Here's a cut + paste of a post on a forum I frequent, thought any (pseudo) legal beagles might have thoughts on this. Sorry if I'm ranting, I'm MAD AS HELL about the officer and still feeling blergh. I'm off to drink ice tea and relax in front of the aircon now. I need it.

    The good first. I had the _best_ days riding ever. I "played around" the back bits of Lorne region, namely Lavers Hill. Came across an awesome little piece of road, C159. It goes through a national park or something, 20km/h limit, an insane amount of corners (50+? Maybe even 100+?), it was a god send in the hot day as the surrounding foliage lowered the ambient temperature a good 5-10c I guess.

    The bad. On the way back, I felt a bit "wrong", light headed and 'wobbly'. A quick sit down + drink just before I got back onto the GOR (Great Ocean Road) and then headed towards Lorne. I felt the wobblies come back on and "frightenly" lost focus in my eyesight a tad for too long for my liking. I pulled over into the first public toilets that I could see which happened to be the ones just out of Lorne on GOR going towards Apollo Bay. I had a lie down in the shade which resulted in a passing out/doze for 1/2-1 hour. Woke up, some tourists who had pulled up near me for a lunch asked if I was ok etc. I guess I didn't look the best? I went to the PT for a quick little spit (spew), 'cleaned up' and as always usually after a spit, I felt better for it.

    I ate some sugars, a chocolate bar, drank more water and jumped on the bike to go home. I still wasn't feeling the best so I wanted to get home ASAP but felt I wasn't "too bad" not to ride (I guess? I wasn't in the best state of mind). Just out of Lorne, I caught up to a car tail gating a SLOW car. The car overtook the slow car on double lines and took off. I decided to do the same as I was feeling bleh, did that and a little bit later we both got pulled over. Some undercover police had seen us (probably saw me heading out of Lorne and followed me - to hope I sped or overtake on single line)

    The copper asked why I did this, I explained how I was feeling light headed, "not myself" and had passed out earlier (as he asked, if you feel light headed, why didn't you pull over? I told him I had, and had just woken from "passing out" shortly before and made tracks to come home. I also said there were some tourists at the spot if he wanted to ask them/verify my story). I was quite agitated due to feeling CRAP and told the cop I needed help (as I felt crap). He just said he will verify who I am in the car. I went into the grass to have a vomit whilst he checked up on me back with base etc.

    I was quite wobbly and had my head on my tank bag (like a standing up sleeping thing) as I was really feeling crap. The cop said my fine(s) will come in the mail and went to take off. I asked him where could I go for help/rest and/or was it ok if I stayed pulled over in the spot due to feeling so crap. He just said "yeah yeah, it's ok, there's something further ahead if you want a toilet" and took off.

    Now that I've had time to think, WHAT ABOUT CHECKING UP ON ME you prick? I may have needed paramedic attention. They were too busy running back to get onto the road to fine $$$ more people rather see to my possible medical needs. Would have been great for my wife if I had "a wobbly" on the way back and had a head on or something. I stayed at the spot for a bit as I wasn't able to get up and ride back then.

    Finally got home before, my wife asked(demanded heh) I see a doctor, I looked like shit. So, I got a GP to see me at my usual place I go to (bi)weekly, just couldn't be my usual GP as he had finished for the day. So, 2 to 2.5 hours later, I see a GP. He took my blood pressure, it was _really low_ in his words and he said I had (minor) heatstroke most likely. He recorded + printed out his observations, "looking pale", low blood pressure etc, patient told me had passed out/slept 'instantly' earlier in day. So I've got a hard copy of a GP thinking heat stroke or so had affected me.

    I still don't know whether to complain about this prick and/or keep the info for when (if? most likely) I get the fine(s) in the mail and return the info + fines stuff stating how I was probably unfit to be controlling a vehicle at that stage with the copper not bothering to do anything and just got back to being a predator on the road. Seriously peeved at the guy, I recall not being myself and telling him I felt unwell, had passed out in front of witnesses and was generally feeling crap-o-rola. Do people have any thoughts about if I should do a complaint about him ASAP or wait til the fine(s) come in the mail. Oh, also the person who was in front of me in the car that got done for overtaking on double lines at same time was parked behind me in the car so may have heard and/or seen what I had seen + was like. Don't know for sure, I wasn't exactly mr observation at that time, I also didn't have enough wits about me to get the details of the police officer due to said "not being myself".



    I just wish I was somehow able to have an accident that could be put down to me being unwell and the officer getting done for "no duty of care" to a motorist who may have been obviously unwell due to the heat. He never asked my wellbeing even through I mentioned I felt CRAP, had passed out etc. Makes me mad the more I think about it, the fine(s), oh well, I did what I did, I can take it like a grown boy but taking off when I may have been prone to having a "wobbly" and possibly causing serious harm or death to myself is just soooo wrong in my view. Can you tell I'm not too happy about the health side of it? heh
     
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  2. You may be lucky and the guy cuts you a break. About 10 years ago I had a similar thing happen and got no sympathy at the time. However No letter ever came... Fingers crossed for u mate but just suck it up and move on.
     
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  3. Next door but one to my motorbike shop is a methadone clinic. Due to the type of ****wits the place attratcs I get junkies spit on my windows, shout abuse at customers and myself plus all other types of small incidents. When I call the local plod I usally get "oh, is that all they've done?" I think the days of cops caring about people are long gone. Therers no money in care - speedings where the money is and budgets have to be kept.
     
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  4. Sorry to hear your story Undii, it is true that you could have been in real distress and he did not even offer to escort you to a place of safety. The motto of the Police "Uphold the Right" seems to be interpreted by the modern Police force in a very limited way. I prefer to think it means do what is ethical. :(
     
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  5. maybe you should have faked a wobbly moment, knees all jelly etc. that would have stuffed him.
     
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  6. While I'm sympathetic, I think your strategy is dangerous: they fine you for dangerous driving and you write back giving the evidence you were not in fit condition to be controlling a motor vehicle at all?
     
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  7. I wonder how many people pull that stunt when they aren't genuinely sick?

    From the cops point of view people pull that stuff all the time and by the sounds of things you could have been a bit blunt with him. Shame it ruined a good day riding but surely you're big bad and ugly enough to deal with the fine and not have a cry about the cop not giving you a cuddle and a cup of tea.
     
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  8. The OP said he accepted the fine, I think the point is what duty and responsibility does the policeman have?
     
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  9. If you are going to complain, be on the front foot and do it now. Doing it when the fine comes appears as if you are using it as an excuse. fwiw youll get a template response and your letter will likely end up in the shredder.

    Unfortunately the duty of care argument would only come into it post the event i.e. after you pass out whilst riding.
    I agree with what your saying though, perhaps he should have offered more assistance
     
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  10. The police are not paramedics. They are there to enforce the law, nothing more.

    Just like doctors treat sick people, but do you expect them to take your car keys if they see you behind the wheel after diagnosing you "unfit to drive"?

    They each have their specific job to do. When the police start making medical judgements, this forum will be FULL of people complaining about how the police have overstepped their boundary.
     
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  11. So a lost child, no crime is committed, Parents problem. Person collapsed in the street, obviously medical, not a police issue return to the station. I prefer to believe that enforcement is only one part of the role of police, not their only role.
     
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  12. [Not an expert on anything, the following is all conjecture] I don't think that should be a problem in this case; heatstroke would have developed while he was riding, and reduces insight. He was also trying to go home.

    But I get the impression that he isn't aiming to get out of the fine so much as pissed off that someone who is employed to maintain public our safety completely ignored someone who was very obviously unwell in a way which makes them a potential danger to themselves and others. If nothing else, the cop should have suggested getting the bike towed, and offered a phone if necessary.

    Obviously the riding tips handout doesn't cover hot weather :\.

    EDIT:
    Police are often the first to arrive. If they turned up at the site of a stabbing, couldn't see the stab-er, and just sat around in their car until the paramedics turned up, would they be completely in the clear if the stab-ee bled to death in the mean time? I'm pretty sure first aid is part of their job ;).

    A related example (overlap between departments): Firefighters provide some medical care, too. In fact, sometimes they get sent out to purely medical calls, in place of an ambulance. The thinking behind this is that figherfighters handling the more basic stuff frees up the paramedics for things which require their full training and equipment.
     
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  13. Police do have a duty of care in injuries etc even if it just involves calling an ambulance.
    They would all have to learn first aid at the very least.
     
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  14. Pretty sure they tell parents to "sod off" until a decent amount of time has passed. Then it may be a case of kidnapping so ... police involvement.

    Not that I have seen this first hand, but I have heard from other parties... the police just controlled traffic and didn't want anything to do with the "patient".

    I'd like to believe in that too.

    But I have been in the situation where the police have found me in a spot of bother... apparently willing to help... until their radio says "something"... and presto... they've gone. Catching criminals > helping Joe Public.
     
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  15. Cheers for the replies. Well, I've calmed down and not so much wanting the officer to be spiked up his butt for being a jerk (in my view of course). I guess as it goes with speeding fines, they "rely" on people being complacent and just "let it slide" which I'm starting to feel like doing. I guess I might sleep on it, which the GP recommended me to do. I think I might do one of two things tomorrow. Either a: Just let it slide and wait for the fine(s) to come in the mail. As I said in the OP (funny how some people either just skim or mis-read posts and then make an uneducated reponse, assume brings out the ass in u and me heh).

    Or I'll call the station tomorrow and state that I was a bit unwell yesterday and with not being in the best mindset, decided to ride home when feeling unwell when I did the said mistakes I mentioned. And like I said, I did something wrong, yeah I have no problem with that. Just when I had repeately mentioned I felt like I had to vomit and that I had passed out recently and just got back on the bike (shortly before after having the nap/passing out) but realising I can't ride then and there(I did ask if I would get in trouble with law/drivers with the way I had parked my bike when pulled over, I wasn't in a good state to assess my parking situation), the cop just mentioned I'll be sent the fines and he got back in the car with no second thought.

    As I will try to hammer into the people who think I'm crying over the fine, I don't care if I get it and not trying to worm my way out of it, I just want the said police officer to know that I am pissed he let me go when I may have jumped back on the bike straight away, had a "wobbly" and may have had a head on or something. But as said, I've cooled down (nice pun) and almost willing to let it slide, stuff happens. But reading websites like this and seeing how much police enforce speeding and 'only' fineable actions, what about stuff where people may be saved from a future accident without it being a cost to the said person, such as the policeman asking if I wanted/needed an ambulance. I wasn't in a good mind to think about it, I probably would have said yes if he thought I needed one. Luckily I waited for a time (I was bad, vomit including feeling BLEH did happen during this incident) then rode home feeling CRAP. My wife couldn't be reached (can see I dialed her y/day and the phone rung out) so I did what "came naturally", just wanted to get home ASAP.

    Anway, enough of typing, the more I keep thinking of this the more it peeves me off, it doesn't do my any good stressing about with the "what ifs" of what happened today. I was just seeing if people knew of any way/protocol that can be done when what happened today happened, me feeling a policeman could have put my life in danger by "simply" walking off when I was complaining and most likely looking visibly "bad" due to other people asking if I was ok less than 10 minutes before hand. All this typing + thoughts has almost made me certain, I'll call their local station and mention what happened with "all the facts". I'll just see how I feel when I wake up tomorrow.
     
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  16. From the moment the police decide to pull you over, they have you detained and under their control. They most certainly do have a duty of care towards you and this duty of care can extend beyond the point that you ride off. Any cop that reasonably believed you were not in a condition to safely ride home should offer to call for assistance (friend/ambuance)or take you home in their car. If you had crashed on the way home, the officer concerned would certainly be in trouble.

    That said, you did get home safely, thus there is really no point pursuing it. He will say he thought you'd be ok and as it happened you didn't crash so it proves he was right.

    If you really don't want to forget about it, you may want to write to VicPol advicing them of the situation and simply suggest that officers routinely are reminded of their duty of care to the people they pull over. You could probably also mention Section 23.(1) and Section 25. (1) (b) of the Occupational Health and Safety Act 2004 regarding the duties of employers and employees towards the health and safety of other people affected by their actions. Check with Tramp or someone else who actually knows what they're doing before you send that though. :)

    P.S. Glad you got home ok mate. I did the GOR run a couple of years ago with terrible food poisoning on a 35c day. It's a nightmare, I've never been soooo scared to fart in my leathers as I was that day! lol
     
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  17. I suspect that police are not very good at the health stuff. The fact that you made it home in one piece indicates the officer probably made an OK call. Only other thing he could have done was to call you an ambulance maybe? Not sure what I would have done in his shoes.

    I'm glad you're OK. Note to self: keep up the fluids on those hot days.
     
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  18. On the other hand, the two of them (undii and our police officer) may have used up their luck rations. Heatstroke is definitely a hazard, and being on a motorcycle increases the risk a lot.
     
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  19. The OP also didn't say that he asked for assistance, rather that the story he cut and paste, the rider did in fact ask for assistance and it was denied. That is a problem, in the case of the OP, he was standing talking to the officer, Telling him he felt off...

    Feeling a bit off, as opposed to vomitting in front of the other officer and telling him you passed out recently are two different things. The OP's post should be taken in the context by which it is offered and by not adding parts of the attached story to it.

    I can see a reason for allerting the officers superiors in the first article but there is little in the op's part of the story that warrant the same. The officers would get many stories all the time as to why someone commited an offence from, "I didn't see the sign", to, "I needed to get to a toilet", and now, "I felt a bit off".
     
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  20. I am getting confused from this. (and maybe you were/are? The 'story' mentioned is all me, not anyone else I was using/copying as an example I think you are trying to say?) I am posting/copy pasting from a post I made on another forum regarding what happened with me adding a little anecdote at the start of the post to "localise" the post for here. The OP part of the story (I assume you do mean me as the OP?) about showing I was sick was *edit* I may have not conveyed myself properly to possibly confuse you and/or others? But hey, I was feeling pretty crap and "not there" due to the suspected (mild?) heat stroke. I still feel a bit off, good ol' insomnia that I've had for a few years is keeping me up, actually feel like going to bed now though, earliest I've done without pain meds for weeks/months I think, well besides the odd "passing out 'early night' due to prolonged lack of sleep catching up with me"

    I don't see how that is the same as "giving a story" with the examples you gave.


    *edit again*

    Oh, now that I'm thinking a little bit better as well, the main thought I had/was trying to ask was, now that I saw a doctor and he pretty much confirmed how I felt, LOW blood pressure, light headed, pale complexion etc as is on his report today, should I contact the police station 'now' (like tomorrow/when I wake up sort of thing) or sit tight and see if I do get fine(s) in mail, then state the case how I was "blergh" and not too happy that the officer just moved on when I had vomited lightly and was most likely obviously looking "bad", as said, other people commented on it, before and after the incident that I looked crap
     
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