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I told you to be afraid!

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by TonyE, Aug 16, 2006.

  1. It looks like Queensland Transport is about to make it much harder to get a motorcycle licence. :evil:
    Not surprising at all given the person that I quote in my sig. is one of the architects of this... She's the Queen of the "reduce crashes by reducing riders school of thinking" as in the disgustingly bad and totally discredited report produced for Tasmania some time back.


  2. We all know the roads would be a damn side safer, in the long run, if it was the other way 'round! (Although I do believe there would be a spike in rider accidents until drivers finally got the message).
    That would be the MUARC study that some of us recently participated in?
  3. sounds like she just wants riders to have thier Provisional for 12 months before getting a bike.

    Not the best but not raising the cost by 300 percent likere here in Adelaide
  4. Titus, with respect, I'd like to know the basis for that assertion; I'm sure many, many more people get a car license first, then a bike license, and are better riders because they learn some roadcraft as a result. Surely whichever comes second benefits from the one that came first??????

    {I'm not trying to start an agrument with you, I just can't see the proof of the statement}
  5. :shock:
    I'm glad they're introducing car power restrictions, but having to hold a car licence for 12 months is not going to change anything, IMO.

    Pointless, stupid BS.
  6. Inst it always.

    btw it was nice to meet you when I came through Canberra. Sorry I havent been here much had some major s**t that I came back too.
  7. I'm sorry but I can see the benifits of the comp 12months C to get your R.

    It's tough enough when you first start out isn't it? Maybe by already having 12 months exp then you should understand road rules etc which means when you learn to ride a bike you can concerntrate on "riding skills" not "this is a stop sign" etc Surely riding a bike and learning your way around the pit fall that is public roads is easier when you only have worry about the "riding the bike" part?
  8. Totally agree with that. Less idiots in cars would wrap themselves around poles or clear out others that way.

    It's always the idiots that ruin it for the rest of us.
  9. Point taken, and I offer no empirical evidence to support my position. I simply offer my own (admittedly limited) experience of European (and other) driving environments where a majority of road users experience life on a scooter for a couple of years before being licenced for cars. There appears to me to be an overwhelmingly higher level of awareness on the roads there, and I believe it's due to the scooter experience.
    (Can't prove it, so shoot me.)
    To be honest, I would agree that it's pretty unlikely that such a cultural shift would occur without the already licenced drivers knocking over a significant number of riders, before things got better. And I accept that the road layout is different.
  10. Oh I agree, and Europe has been very different for the last 60 years for that exact reason. Post-war, two wheels was the only choice for millions, and that 'culture' has continued through the Vespa era in the 60s right up to now.

    Within a couple of years of the end of the war, Australia had its own car, so the car became the first means of transport.

    (The size of the country, and the distances to be travelled mitiagated against scooters ever being mainstream as sole transport, as well, of course)

    On balance, however, I'm sure you'd agree, that it's probably best for young men in particular to get their wild and crashing days behind them in the (relative) safety of a car, than in the fragile and infinitely more dangerous environment of two wheels??
  11. I think you'll find the intent is that by having people in cars then people won't want to go off and get a bike. Hey presto, you get rid of those pesky little annoying bikers then. And as we all know, bikes = danger/death and therefore the road toll will go down.

    I love logic.
  12. Depends on whether you're the "wild, crashing young man", or the person he crashes into!
    I don't want to see young men die (and I don't disagree with the restrictions on high powered cars, f'rinstance), but they would certainly be a lesser threat to other road users if they were on two wheels, wouldn't they?
    Point taken about the road environment. It's probably too late for Australia.
  13. considering how difficult I found riding was, and considering that i would call myself very co-ordinated. trying to learn to ride AND acquire road craft would be increadibly hard.

    given the right topic, all bikers talk about the dangers involved with riding and how you learn to mitigate them. yet give a different topic and suddenly we forget that and suggest that learning to while having no road sense is a good combination?

    sure the rider will pick up road craft and be far better for it. but having the protection and visibility of a car will provide greater protection to them not to mention getting rid of that initial crazy period that every p plater seems to have before giving them the power of a bike.

    i don't think this is a poorly considered plan. I do think it will have negative impacts on bike ownership however
  14. Ohh I agree with you completely.

    Tis stupid
  15. It seems to work well in other countries. I got a bike licence (learners permit) when I was 16, progressed to my licence at 17. The first accident I had was me being dumb. The others were due to testosterone. That (unfortunately) seems to blight most men for many years.

    There are lots of people who do learn all of the skills mentioned and quite successfully.

    What concerns me most is the belief that if you drive a car, even if you have an accident, you will be safe. Unfortunately the daily death toll proves otherwise.

    I believe riding a motorcycle teaches you is how vulnerable you are and that should rub off on your car driving experience. How many kids do you see spinning their wheels in the wet and generally making no allowance for the massive reduction in grip you have when it rains. Most riders understand only too well that when it rains, you button it off, slow down, approach oily intersections with extreme car, learn to be gentle on the throttle and the brakes etc...When car drivers just seem to carry on as if the road was nice and dry.

    It just looks (he says with cynical eyes) that this is a thinly veiled attempt to reduce the amount of people on bikes.
  16. How many people get thier bike licences at 18 anyway?

    I don't know the stats but it seems to me [maybe cause I'm an old bugger] that it is mainly older people getting licences?
  17. There's certainly positives from both sides of the argument. On one hand the Italian idea of encouraging young people to learn road rules at low speeds on scooters works well in an inner city environment, but in an Australian context i don't believe that would work very well.
    On the other hand i've told my missus that she's not allowed to get her motorbike L's until she's atleast got her car P's. Exactly as has been said before, learning to ride a motorbike is a big enough challenge in itself. Having to learn road rules and roadcraft at the same time is no easy challenge!
  18. Biggest problem I see with this is that it may force people who only want to ride into buying a car that they're only going to keep 12 months - so quite likely they're just going to buy the cheapest piece of junk they can find. And I'm not entirely sure whether that would in fact be safer than having a bike in good condition and decent riding gear. Maybe they should just look at giving all new riders a couple of grand to make sure they've got the best gear - make more sense than paying people to convert to LPG.
  19. I agree, I narrowly avoided an accident from a young male driver who was driving like the road was dry, when it was anything but.

    changed to inside lane on the M2, lost it and T-boned the car slightly in front of me and in the left lane. When he lost it, that happened in my blind spot. It was only by God's grace it missed me.

    All I saw was a car headed directly from right to left in front of me. no time to move react, the guy never hit the brakes, so I never heard it. Fortunately both the drivers were alright. (I stayed called the Ambo's and Police). This was just after I'd purchased my bike (had a mate ride it back to mine since I had to head straight to work). Both cars were a total right off.

    The only reason I hadn't pulled the same stunt as the young driver was because it was wet and the road was slippery. The young driver just wasn't aware or thought it didn't matter. Either way people need to be taught how to drive and not taught how to pass a test.
  20. When I got my first bike, I was 16. It was a 100cc agbike. I learned how to ride on mates' farms. After I got my confidence and skill levels up a bit, I ventured further afield into the local pine forest plantations, quarries and so on.

    I think that I had about 18 mths experience on the bike before I got my learners. Back then, that was achieved by merely answering a 30 question (mutliple choice) quiz, doing an eyesight and color vision check. Getting the actual licence 3 months later involved nothing more than fronting up to the local traffic police HQ and having him watch you piss off around the block on the bike. I had borrowed a mate's 400cc bike for the test. No 250 limits back then (a mate had a brand spanking new Kawasaki Z1 when he went for his licence).

    If I went on personal experience, given that I'm still here after 32 years of riding, I'd suggest that getting bike experience before "aquiring" roadcraft via the trial and error method by learning to ride off-road should place you in a greater position to survive. Of course, that option isn't readily available to everyone, particularly those who live in metro areas and who don't have any friends with farms where you can easily visit to ride around.

    I can understand the QLD government's thoughts on this. It's safer for them to learn how to deal with road traffic in a car before going onto a bike, where the learning curve is far steeper and the risks far greater. It means one less thing to deal with when you do go for your bike licence.

    (note - it doesn't mean that I necessarily agree with it, either)

    I'm not sure that it will deter people from getting onto two wheels. A lot of learners and new riders are people who already have car licences. Witness the explosion in two wheel sales over the past couple of years. And it's not likely to slacken off, either, thanks to ever increasing fuel prices, congestion, warnings on global warming and the like.