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"I thought it must have been bad guys, then I saw it was kids"

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by Ljiljan, Apr 22, 2012.

  1. Kids that

    a) were driving a stolen car, and likely stole it.
    b) ran from cops without provocation
    c) drove onto footpath
    d) hit a woman and dragged her under the car

    Yet because police shot at and hit them, they are the victims. There's something wrong with this picture. In fairness, the article is much more even handed than the heading.

  2. the car's occupants are from Redfern is a concern for police. For the area's indigenous community, memories remain of the 2004 riots, when civil unrest erupted in the suburb after the death of Thomas "TJ" Hickey. Coroner John Abernethy found police had followed TJ on his bike before he was impaled on a fence but they were not responsible for the 17-year-old's death. The community blamed police

    ^that is why we have these problems, the kids can do whatever they like, because somehow its always someone elses fault.... actually society in general these days, people need to accept responsibility and that not all kids are innocent
  3. Can't report the story without sensationalising it. No analysis of the two different situations, just Aborigines = riot. Nice and simple.

    Also, was it necessary to punch him/them?
  4. The main issue I see here is the Police opened fire on a moving target while 100's of people were around on the footpaths.

    The second issue is the unecessary use of excessive force after arrest by the Police.

    The whole situation is so very reminiscent of the U.S. Police forces approach, which our Australian counterparts seem to be aping more and more these days.

    There's a discrepancy in the report.. saying Police opened fire while following and yet photos show at least two bullets pierced the windscreen from the front.
  5. Possibly not, but it was probably long overdue. Ultimately both driver and passenger are lucky they didn't die. I understand survival of the driver is still in question. They drove onto footpath with no heed for other people safety and ran over a woman. She could have easily been killed. Police shot at them with no care for the occupants survival. A punch to the head compared to that is rather small beans methinks.

    My reading of it tells me police were on foot. 4am sunday morning in Kings Cross, that's quite likely to be the case. Given that occupants saw the police, the cops would have been in front of the car - drivers don't see backwards well.The car went onto the pavement, police followed but still in front. They then shot from in front.
  6. Thanks Lilley.

    The CCTV footage shows one cop trying to hang onto the right side of the car while another gave foot chase.. before shots were fired.

    In the photo of the car there are the two windscreen shots mentioned and another can be seen through the left side window.

    With so many people on the street at the time opening fire with pistols was stupid. I do understand the need to arrest the occupants, but some sort of common sense has to prevail when the bad guys don't show any at all. Perhaps a simple radio call for Helicopter tracking would have been more effective?
  7. Well, it may give criminals or would be criminals something to think about.

    Laws in Australia are absolute garbage, just about everything ends up with a slap on the wrist.

    Not one person that has commented was actualy there, yet most have formed an opinion based on some cctv footage or media reports. Did they shoot when the woman was pinned under the car? Did they shoot before?
    When it comes to thinking on your feet, would they have had enough time to radio in and actualy stop them? If they didn't would they have been caught and dealt with or just vanished?

    Too many unanswered questions. But those of race shouldn't even count.
  8. The more a population allows and accepts such conduct by Police, the more times you will see excessive force being used in situations not requiring such force, just as is seen more often than not in the U.S. these days.

    Are you happy to be pulled over for something and want to point out how you really didn't do what you are accused of, only to find the response is aggressive towards you? This is the path we are on where simply questioning is seen as non-compliance.

    I certainly agree that how some youth are treated leniently by the courts is a problem.

    And I also agree that none of us where there at the time. But, I am aware that Police are well trained to do the job properly and so we SHOULD expect a higher level of self-control from them, especially now that their lives will be worth more than your's or mine.

    Opening fire in a crowded street is not right by any standards.
  9. Driving over people on a crowded footpath because you dont want to get caught by the cops in a stolen car is Ok then?
  10. Nor is watching absently while people on the footpath are driven over... If my kid was doing something stupid enough that he figures it is his best course of action to run over innocent by-standers, I'd make him wish the cops had shot him. These officers need to be re-trained. To shoot straighter. I dislike the police as much as the next guy, but if it was your daughter mowed down on the footpath, you'd be out for blood.
  11. Whilst unlicenced and in a car you stole from another innocent person...
  12. Can't portray Aboriginals in a bad light, that wouldn't be politically correct.
  13. If I was on the footpath at the time and the car was coming at me, I'd be angry if the cops didn't shoot at the car and try to put a end to the situation.
  14. He could of easily kept driving after being shot..

    I think the situation at hand is that they opened fire in an area with loads of potential innocent victims.. they should have let the kids escape.. and then follow them with a helicopter or even cars.
    I wonder if they had instead of intercepting the kids in the busy district and let them drive away until they were in a safe area to either ram them or shoot.. if need be.
    Its a sad situation and they did the wrong thing from both sides.

    The innocent victim that got mowed down.. i hope they recover well.
  15. Are any of the above comment posters trained law enforcement officers or trained Navy seals? Were any of you there at the time the scene occurred?

    If the answer to both of the above questions is no, then please lets not judge what they should have / could have done.

    You and I have no skills in dealing with criminals and dealing with anti social behavior. Most here couldnt even operate a firearm. So let's not bag cops for shooting and opening fire.

    I'd rather have gutsy police willing to use their guns when necessary rather than act as muppets in uniforms. The police in Australia is as soft as it gets, already. Trust me you wouldn't know what heavy handed law enforcement is. Spend some time in NY or LA for that.

    And besides, every cop busy shooting a real criminal is one less cop booking me for speeding 3 kmph over the speed limit.
  16. From what I have read I hope these "kids" (read:c**ts) go away to a very bad place for a long time.

    My best wishes for the poor girl who was run down and whoever it was that now has to try and get their damaged car out of the evidence compound.
  17. Guys I understand about an innocent person being run down by these 'kids', and hell yeah if it was my daughter I would be sitting in the watchouse today.

    I would like to know from bystanders what the Police first response was to cause the driver to flee that way instead of jumping out and legging it into the crowd. I do not trust Police to offer the correct and honest report of what occured.

    There is an old saying that two wrongs don't make a right. A car runs down a pedestrian, so Police open fire in a crowded street where many people could have been killed from their actions. It is very fortunate that no one else was.

    One thing to remember I think is to keep emotional reactions from clouding perceptions in highly emotive situations like this.
  18. I did consider this before I made my post. I basically came to the conclusion that you can break the situation down into two parts: before the occupants were shot and after the occupants were shot. The level of threat posed by a limp body, lying in a pool blood is not the same as before it was shot, so a professional should act accordingly.

    I agree. My own opinion is that it comes down to the "militarisation" of police forces.

    Or it may result in innocent people getting killed as a result of mistaken identity, etc.

    What do you mean?

    The teenagers shot happen to be Aboriginal. It is in every article you will read. They were in a stolen car and ran someone down on a footpath. It's all out there. Are you honestly suggesting the media is spinning this so Aboriginals don't look bad? I think your own prejudices are showing more than anything else.
  19. I would think a number of members here have been trained in weaponry and/or crowd control measures. Some would also have to have been trained even if only as Security in pubs and clubs.

    Myself, was rated a marksman on the Adelaide Dean Range in 1978 with a score of 23 out of 30.. and I can't be the only one here who has spent some time in the military in our younger years.

    Gutsy Police yes.. behaving as dangerously in a crowded street as the perpetrators.. No.

    Heavy handed cops are everywhere, we've got plenty in Queensland let alone in other Aussie states. I've had my share of a-hole cops along with one or two nice ones. Never had a run in with Yank cops, but have with airport security guards over there.

    Think about how much power and force do you really want Police to have? Then knowing that it will be abused and used inappropriately should help you to change you perceptions on what is okay for them to do now in the same types of situations.
  20. Do you really think this is a valid comparison? I mean, do I really need to point out the differences in terms of number of guns, crime and homicide statistics and so on? If we are just pulling random, almost groundless examples then I could argue our police should not even have guns. After all, police in the UK are unarmed. No, don't worry about the historical reasons and differences. :-s