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I fell over

Discussion in 'Your Near Misses - A Place to Vent' started by thisisjoe, Nov 3, 2015.

  1. Hello,

    Thought this might be a good place to see what you people think about this one;

    That's me! At Halls Gap, every one of the three cars to pass us by stopped to offer help, one couple even stayed further up the road to slow approaching traffic until we sorted ourselves out so that was really nice.

    I just got back from a three day 1600km ride, which was pretty amazing. Except for that small part on day two.
    I'm still fairly new to riding, this was the first trip I've done off my L's. I think I know what happened but i'd like to get some more opinions.

    My thoughts are that I entered an unfamiliar turn with too much speed, it looks like a decreasing radius and I don't have the skill or confidence to increase my lean any further that I had it.

    So there you have it, one bent headlight bracket, one cosmetically damaged fuel tank, a scuffed jacket, glove and arm. That's about it luckily. The rest of the ride was pleasantly uneventful, we came back and did that road the other way the next morning and all was well.


  2. I'm not too sure about the too much speed part. Your lines are not good - start wide and finish tight. You probably target fixated on the rock wall, tensed up, couldn't turn etc etc. All those usual noob errors.

    I recommend you read and practice on Rob's cornering threads. Have you seen them?
    • Agree Agree x 3
  3. Yeah, I can't remember exactly, but I know I wasn't looking through the turn properly. When I say too much speed i mean for me it was too much speed, no doubt a more experienced rider would have been fine at a much higher speed (and better line). Haven't seen those threads, i'll check them out. Thanks.
  4. Hi Joe, I am new to riding too, have been on restricted licence for just over a month now. I rode that stretch of road couple of times and know too well how easy it is to target fixate! I agree with BrmmmBrmmm, it's not so much your speed, it is not looking where you want to go. That rock wall is so close when you ride by! Great job successfully riding the same stretch again the next day (y)
  5. Cheers, it is a nice stretch of road. After reading the first of robs noob cornering guide I can tell I've got my work cut out for me, I'll be off to find some place to practice between bouts of bike repair.
  6. As BrmmmBrmmm stated, you started the turn too close to the middle of the road (start too tight - although you could have still made it easily on that line at that speed had you leant the bike over more) and drifted left, spotted rock wall, and target fixated.

    You HAVE to trust that the bike will turn harder if you really want it to, and to look through the corner, pushing on that right bar. If your not scraping the pegs on the little CeeBee, then you certainly can lean more.

    Glad your essentially uninjured. Treat it as a lesson learnt.
    • Agree Agree x 4
  7. #7 BENNY THE JET, Nov 3, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2015
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. #8 Greydog, Nov 3, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2015
    Rob's threads are the Noob101 - 104 threads.
    • Like Like x 1
  9. #9 Returned, Nov 4, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2015
    My two cents worth - which you should realise rounds down to nothing of value today. Looked like you were following your friends lines very closely. At 17 seconds he turns into corner very early. Through the turn the vanishing point seems to remain constant. At 21 seconds your friend starts to straighten his bike and head to wall ( maybe he target fixated which was strange as corner was opening up). Then at 22 seconds his brake light comes on and he gets very close to edge of road. I think your attention went from the corner (*1) to your mates brake light/bike/wall and that's were you headed - then probably with a bit fistful of front brake.

    (*1 It is possible that you were all the time not setting and following your own lines and speed through the corners but just following you mates. )
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. #10 Hillsy, Nov 4, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2015
    Glad you came off relatively ok, yep as above robs noob 101 etc posts, your possibly intuitively and not purposefully counter steering which makes it very difficult too be smooth and precise or adjust mid corner, cutting the throttle looks to be where it started to go wrong, which you would do if you fixated on that wall.

    A piece of advise I read in this thread If you could only give one tip, what would it be? that has saved my arse;
    Thanks CrazyCamCrazyCam / @netrider

    And if you haven't already, watch A twist of the wrist II
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Good advice guys, rewatching the video with what you are all saying in mind really makes it look so avoidable. I initially didn't think I was target fixating, but I think I must have been, because by remaining focused on the vanishing point I believe I could have salvaged it. Of course, better positioning at the start would have made this a non issue.

    The enter wide, finish tight advice from Brmmm and the early turn noticed by Returned are one and the same issue yeah? I should start the turn later.

    I've watched Twist of the Wrist a couple of times, I try to keep the throttle control and counter steering stuff in mind but up to now haven't really given much thought to the lines I am taking.

    Cheers again.
  12. I think the other rider did have a lot to do with it. I see two repeatedly dangerous thought patterns in this type of thing. 1. He is more experienced than me, so his decisions are better than mine. 2. He made it at that speed so I should too.

    Want to take corners faster? Here's a tip: STOP TRYING. I cannot stress this enough. Do not try to go quick, you will ride past your comfort and skill level and you will fall off.

    Slow down and practice getting your lines right and practice being smooth. Watch the best riders and they all have this in common, they are smooth. They are comfortable with how they set the bike up for a corner, and so they get to carry their plan through the corner without upsetting the bike.

    Remember when you first learned about the controls of the bike you tried to pre-setup as much stuff as you could to reduce your workload at the critical moment? You would change down 100 metres before a turn, indicate to early - do everything you could do so that when you arrive all you had to do was turn? It's the same with high speed cornering. Timing is everything. Many rookies make that error of dropping into a turn too early, they overshoot the apex at speed not having turned enough and leave themselves going too quick and with a lot or turning left to do, which in your case, you failed to complete.

    For that right hander: move to the left edge of the left hand tyre track. Don't go all the way to the edge of the road, there is often rubbish there. Now approach the turn sighting a point just past the apex of the corner at which you are going to kiss the inside edge, in this case the white line. When you think you can hit that point, it is now time to lean the bike into the turn. As soon as it is leaning into the turn, sight your exit point and then look past that to where you want to end up. Practice doing this at slow speed and the first thing you will notice is that you are commencing your turn slightly later than you used to.

    A turn will be a single action. If you get it right, nothing will change through the turn, you will complete it in one motion before rolling on some throttle which will assist in standing the bike up out of the turn.

    Do it over and over again at a nice comfortable slow speed. Your job is to make this good technique second nature. This is all that needs to be in your mind, don't ever try to speed it up. If you try to speed it up you will just ruin your technique.

    One day down the track you will look at your speedo coming out of a corner and realize that your cornering speed has increased a lot. The big point is it won't feel like you are riding harder, it's actually harder work to do it wrong.

    For street riding, the last tip is never ride at 100%, make sure you have something left for the unexpected.
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Informative Informative x 3
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    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. Great advice teefteef, thank you! I will put it into practice riding corners at Halls Gap this weekend (y)
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Yes great post. After reading the post by Teef and the noob cornering guide its so easy to see what I was doing wrong. Really looking forward to putting these into practice now. Thanks again everyone, this has been a great help.
    • Like Like x 2
  15. Agree with the above. I found that where I look is my most critical action. The line is important - start wide and finish tight - also if I want to change line, deliberately counter steer (mostly to tighten in the turn).
    And Fr33dmFr33dm? JEALOUS!!!
    • Like Like x 1
  16. thisisjoethisisjoe fighting your instincts in order to push harder to make it around the bend rather than giving yourself over to survival reactions is really hard for us noobs. I had an early near miss that mirrors yours on my first solo GOR trip. Decreasing radius bend, numb with cold, fatigued and I fixated on the rock face. I remember thinking, "I'm supposed to be doing something....." It wasn't going to end well. Then I got mad, tore my gaze away from the rock face and pushed harder than I'd ever done before. Scary and exhilarating all at the same time.

    Glad to hear you're not hurt and are being pragmatic about it.
    • Like Like x 4
  17. It happens, we all do it or have mini scares.
    To me the video looks like midway though the corner you said "f%ck I cant make it" and cut the throttle (maybe applied the front brakes) which in the process stood the bike up at the critical point)....in the process you most likely would have looked at the bank thinking SHITT I'm going to crash which likely would have prevented any salvaging of the situation. You go where you look!

    Having bad lane positioning certainly limited what options and room available to maneuver however wasn't the cause of the crash.

    Knowing your theory is good however won't help if you momentarily loose confidence mid-turn which is one of the most frightening things of riding. You literally just have force your head 70' and look at the white centre line while leaning and keeping the throttle open. 9/10 times the bike can make the corner (unless your on a Harley :p) even if it involves scrapping off some footpeg or centrestand in the process.

    Going fast around corners takes confidence and skill which takes years to build up. Get the basics done right then ride a little harder each time but not outside your ability. All it takes is a little gravel, wet patch or oncoming car to shake your confidence up mid-turn.
    • Agree Agree x 2