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Hyosung......no racing?

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' at netrider.net.au started by pmcdermo, Dec 17, 2010.

  1. Ok so Hyosung has it's haters and it's supporters. The general line from the supporters is along the Hyo's are just as good as the jap bikes and people held that same suspect views about Jap bikes when they started ariving on the scene.

    Strikes me however that there is one fundemental and improtant distinction between Hyo and the Japs and thats racing.

    All of the Major Japanese brands have been a firm fixture in motorcyle racing since the 50s and 60s but Hyosung have no representation in any of the major motorcyle racing events.

    So while it is true to say the Japs started out making cheper bikes for the masses they where also involved in racing from pretty early on

    The thing about racing is it makes you stand up and pay attention. I mean it was pretty hard to dismiss the Japanese bikes when they were winning at world championship level.

    So why dont Hyo do racing? Could it be that they either:
    1. don't think they can compete?; or
    2. don't have any interest in competing?

    Either way it doesn't really give them much credibility in my view.

    I mean if they dont think they can compete well then I am going to think their bike aren't as good

    If they dont have any interest in competing that makes me think that they couldn't be making great bikes because they have no passion for it.

    Aside from that where does the development come from if not the track?


     
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  2. They have no interest in racing...

    The development comes from marketing, they are basically selling the same bikes now that they sold in 04. The only addition is the ST700 which exists because the non trad GV650 didn't sell very well in the US...
     
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  3. The Japanese also did well, because even the bikes they were offering in the 60s were (mostly) vastly superior to their mostly British equivalents in pretty much every respect. Sure, a 250 or 305 Honda Dream won't keep up with a Bonnie, but it would knock spots off any Brit 250 or 350 and wouldn't require fettling every weekend or piss oil on your only decent trousers.

    Whatever might be said of Hyos, they are not superior to their established equivalents in any way except price and, even there, their advantage is not huge.
     
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  4. By copying jap bike technology/design then providing cheap imitations?
     
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  5. I wouldn't be so sure... They have a foot in the door now and I daresay at some point in the future we'll see a factory backed Hyosung racing team. As mentioned above, some cred does come from racing. But not all of it.

    Look at the bikes they are selling though. GT250, GT650... Both are restricted LAMs bikes. No big thou or thou plus bikes. They are clearly aiming at the entry level market. Not the screaming round corner with your knee down and hair on fire market.

    In the national series there was a naked hyo at outright second.... So the whole "don't think they can compete" doesn't apply.

    EDIT: @Blackster: some of the best things are imitations. Thats why they are good. Same product. Half the price. Or like product anyway.
     
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  6. While I do agree that factory racing at the top level (not even winning - just competing itself!) is probably one the of best ways to increase the brand value of the marquee, companies these days just don't seem to have the resources (see: WSB Pullout of Ducati, Bimota, MV Agusta; MotoGP pullout of Aprillia, Kawasaki, etc. etc...)

    If I were their strategy team I'd probably look into doing something like Triumph and try their hand at support classes, but they'll have to pick up their R&D to do that.
     
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  7. There needs to be a lot more development to get them to be competitive for racing. You also need to consider that the 250 is built on a full size frame (to heavy for racing).

    Plus the V twin configuration with the 75 degree twin does not make the same power as the japanese in line four. they do however make more torque.

    I think hyos are based more upon usable power for the street. Id like to see them try to compete in racing. I think some serious development would be needed before they head to the track
     
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  8. I wouldn't be so sure about that, by all accounts S&T's bike branch are on a pretty dodgy wicket, I wouldn't be surprised if they just stayed as they are for some time as most of there money comes from their scooter sales, or maybe they might just stop all together...
    That';s because they'd have no chance at all in the thou market, also considering how long it's take to get their current engines to a stage where they don't go bang as soon as someone looks at them how loong do think it'll take before they sort a new engine...
    Which national series? I know there are 2 naked 650's in formula exteme but they seem to be at the back most of the time.
    Which hyo is half the price than it's competitor??? at one stage the GT250R was dearer than the new lil ninja.
     
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  9. There, fixed that for you.

    A mate who races historics reckons that not caring about the bike is worth around 5 seconds a lap at Wanneroo. About the only reason I'd ever consider buying a Honda would be to take it to the track without worrying about breaking something decent :D. Similarly I can see a use for the Hyo as a cheap club racer, bought as a repairable write off. The alleged spares cost goes against this though, unless you bought 2 or 3 to cannibalise.
     
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  10. The Hyo's serve their purpose. And that's about it.
    They are a good bike for someone who does not want to go over 7/10ths.
    They are safe and stable to a point. I just cant help the feeling I have jumped on a bike from at least a decade ago when I ride one though. I just don't feel connected to one. Speaking more of the sporty ones.
    Fit and finish on the other hand is not up to spec of the premo Jap brands. And having been a service manager in a dealership that sold them. They have faults. Not really mechanically. Just stupid things like leaky welds on the tanks. Or seats coming apart. Plastic chrome coming off. Simple things really. But to get that warrenty done takes triplicates and photo's and a real pain in the ass. But they do approve everything. It just takes time.
    Hyundia use to be known as the throw away car. Now they are getting COTY for a few models. It all takes time.
     
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  11. Certainly seems everyone is cheering them on to do just that... Tell me everyone, what would you prefer: a market full of different products with different competitive prices or a market with a handful of choices all of which are overpriced and pretty similar?

    They said the same thing about the entry level 250 market... And here we are, Hyosung has a foot in the door ;) :D

    If hyosung wanted to, they could probably make a bike for that market. Building engines is building engines. Sure some things will be the same, however Hyosung will have learnt alot from there 30years. They could apply that knowledge and build something that was on par with their current bikes, except with a 1000cc powerplant.


    Formula Extreme... That was a couple of months ago though... Not sure if things have changed. The website isn't working... Someone check up on the standings of the 2 hyo's in the nakedbikes series, i'd be interested to see where they are standing now.

    Apologies for the confusion, I didn't mean that Hyosungs were cheaper than their competitors. I just meant imitations in general. Clothes, DVDs and the like. However, Hyosungs are currently cheaper than their direct competitors...


    @PatB: not sure what you are getting at. Whether it be the middle aged men going through a mid-life crisis on a harley, the beige, latte drinking R1 set or the hot-headed young men on their fireblades... Each kind of bike offers something to its rider.

    If riding a hyosung was the difference between riding because thats what I could afford or not riding at all, I'd jump on a Hyosung. Many people make that choice and more and more people are making the choice of screw the big 4, i'm buying something that is realistically priced.

    EDIT: Found it.

    1 Jesse MUELLER (NSW) 358
    2 Richard WILKINSON (SA) 265
    3 Dean YAGAN (NSW) 184

    He's still 2nd. A hyosung is beating a whole bunch of ducatis, a couple of triumphs, a few KTMs and a honda. Oh yeah, inferior and can't compete... I can't find what first place is riding...
     
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  12. depends on whether the choices are any good or not. You may consider the big 4 over priced but they are a couple of hundred more in that and hyo parts are often 2 to 3 times the big 4.
    Theres A very different level of quality required in the thou market. Why do you think they'd be able to make a thou that's any good they failed with the 250 and 650.
    not by a lot and the resale is hideous.
     
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  13. :-s I've seen comparable prices... Little bit more expensive in some cases. Cheaper in others.

    Lets take the Yamaha 125... Selling for $7500... As much as a Ninja 250. Try and tell me that isn't over-priced. Then we can move to the CBR125"R" :D $5k for something that isn't anything more than a scooter... Tell me, the entire entry level sector isn't overpriced, then try and justify that position.

    Oh, no doubt. You don't want the bike to come apart at the seems while you are doing 300. My thinking is, they haven't failed with the 250/650 restricted market because they haven't gone out of business in over 30 years. In that time, they must have learnt something. Word is they have and if they wanted to, they could apply that knowledge to the bigger engine market.

    However, consider what the bigger engine market is. How old are you and what size bike do you ride? As soon as you hit about 30+ the majority is 1000cc and over. Guys that are old, more likely to stick with one brand, or aren't about to go out and try some company that they are older than. Old people don't adopt new ideas. Young people are taught those ideas as truth from the very start and the same cycle continues.

    Resale is only hideous because of the stigma that surrounds hyosung. People want Ninjas because of the marketing image that surrounds them. the fact that they are a reliable bike helps the cause. If hyosung had the same image as the Kwaka Ninja, things would be a low different.
     
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  14. I'll keep this short because I'm on the train.

    1 they've only been making there own designs since 2000 not 30 years.
    2 the 125s are not designed or priced for this market. You need to compare like for like.

    3 im well over 30 and a 650 is good for me

    4 stigma comes for somewhere.

    5 do you own one?
     
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  15. Well that should be good in the exercise equipment market, pushing that home will be even harder than it is with their current models.
     
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  16. Ok in front of a pc now, is it over priced dunno maybe, but the Hyo is only marginally cheaper, so little in fact at one stage I've seen the hyo marked up dearer than the ninja...
    They haven't gon out of business because they've been making stuff to other peoples designs, and answering to other peoples quality control...
    One the hyo isn't short of is rumour...
    I'm not really sure what you're talking about here...
    If hyo had made a reliable bike when they released the GT250 in 2000 they would have am image, but what they did is released a under developed machine with woeful build quality, which they then followed up with a 650 that was just as bad, if they'd done it right in the first place the point would be moot...
     
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  17. I ride a '96 Honda VF750C and an '81 Honda CX500.

    I jumped on a mate's 2009 Hyosung 650 Aquila. The difference in refinement was like night and day. The Hyosung is simply rough as guts in every way! I wouldn't buy one!
     
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  18. That stigma came from the Hyo riders that were let down by inferior metallurgy and poor quality control.I like the look of the GTR and the GT's. I had a naked comet two fiddy.
    it was a new brand and it was very cheap,the list of shortfalls wasn't what you would call disastrous but it wasn't leaving a good impression..even after not riding for 15 years I knew wooden brakes and wallowing suspension when I rode it. I put some 28,000 kms on the bike.When it did fail, it did it in catastrophic fashion..the crank shaft let go.
    My biggest worry was now a reality..spares..or more to the point the lack of them.A two year warranty sounds good..until you need it and then find no-one has spares in stock and it's not uncommon to wait at least 4 weeks to have them shipped..the price compared to Jap parts is stupidly expensive..Hmmmm, so thats why the bikes are so cheap..Hyosung make money selling spares.

    If I had done a little more homework I would have found a website called Korider.
    If you are in the market for a Hyosung have a browse there first..if the endless pages of issues with all models dont put you off..test ride one,that should do it...unless you have never ridden anything else.

    There was a thread showing guys racing GTR's..I dont know what the class was but they were running bikes with stock pipes and what looked like stock tyres.
     
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  19. The term 'hyosung quality control' is an oxymoron. They are rubbish.
    I personally love the look of the hyosungs, particularly the GT650S but I wouldnt touch them. I got a new GS500F for a little less than a GT650S cost. sure it doesnt have EFI or a digital display etc etc but it is bloody bulletproof and it will still be going long after a similar aged Hyo is dead, buried and long forgotten.
    If hyosung did ever get a race team together the bike would spend the whole time in the pits waiting for parts to arrive whilst hyosung head office deny its a warranty issue and refuse to cover it.
     
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  20. why dont hyos race?

    here's a four word answer for you to ponder.

    BECUASE THEY ARE SH!T

    ill expand, racing is very hard on engines, chassis, brakes, they whole bike really. things on jap bikes fail on the track that seldom if ever fail on the road.

    hyos, i know plenty of cases where engines have done bottom ends after 20,000kms. i know many many people who had caliper mounting bolts snap. electrical woes go on. and to top it off they steer stop and go worse than trying to steer a wild bush pig by the ears thats just been shot in the arse with bird shot.

    and sorry but your demonstration of the racing results does little, what class is that? i take my hat off to the guy for racing it, but really points in club racing can come down to more attendance and ability of the rider more than the bike by a long shot.

    a hyo, and ive ridden the GT650R and the 250, handles and goes comparably to a 1970's vintage jap bike.

    and if you want something cheap, buy a f3 or f4 cbr600, easily for under 5k, and youll get 300,000kms out of the motor if you look after it.
     
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