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Hurt report - turning left into oncoming motorcycles

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' started by simon varley, Nov 9, 2009.

  1. I've been banging my head over this one. I can't understand why it's such an issue when a car turning left out of an intersection should be easily managable.

    just now the penny dropped. the Hurt report is American - duh! We should be considering drivers turning RIGHT into oncoming riders!

  2. even so, isn't this the one thing we shuld be fully in control of? Whether the driver is turning left or right is immaterial. We know that nobody sees us, so we take steps to prevent the pain.

    If you can see a car approaching an intersection, and the relative bearing between the two of you isn't changing, then you ARE on a collision course. Assume the car won't stop and adjust you speed up (or dare I say down) to pass the intersection before or after the car arrives.

    If the car is stationary at the intersection, ignore the driver and forget about making eye contact. Watch the wheels. if the wheels start to move assume the car is coming all the way out and take appropriate action (you did bufer front and back didn't you?)

    Am I being simplistic here? Even though I've only been riding again for 3 years I've been driving with this theory for >20 year and it's VERY rare I get surprised by someone's behaviour at a junction.......

    just my 2c

  3. it got me on thursday. I just couldnt belive she turned.

    if i went left i wouldve gone into her path - crashed and hit her car and some poles
    if i went right i wouldve gone into oncoming traffic - crashed and hit oncoming cars

    so i jammed on the anchors and just hit her car...

    as much as everyone would like to make you think everything is avoidable and only idiots or careless riders crash... sometimes it just happens and you just goto crash and hope for the best.
  4. You can't anticipate it every time. You can make eye contact, prepare the brakes, buffer appropriately, move in your lane - but doing it every single time isn't really possible. Any even if you do, its not any guarantee that they wont turn anyway.

    For me the biggest precaution is leaving a buffer between the car in front, otherwise the person turning wont be able to see you. Also moving around in the lane can help them establish you in their spatial awareness..
  5. I guess there's no guarantee, and nothing works 100% of the time, but don't you find that leaving a large buffer in front of you tempts people to pull out? I guess if they do so then you've already created the space to work with, but is there an argument in favour of closing the gap?
  6. Closing the gap would be a very dangerous strategy. There has been a bit of research done that shows the size of an approaching vehicle varies the accuracy with which we estimate the time it will take to reach us. We think larger vehicles will reach us sooner than small vehicles, even when they are travelling at the same speed. The end result can be that people overestimate how long they have before a motorcycle will reach them, and so they pull out when they would not have done if it was a car or truck coming.

    Add to this the research that shows that people have trained themselves to pick out hazards based on the frequency of occurrence, and so they recognise cars and trucks as hazards but not motorcycles. In the UK the police have a term for this: LBDNS. Looked But Did Not See. Just like our SMIDSY, only more official-sounding.
  7. makes sense. smaller = further away
  8. i think its more that big = will crush me ie better stand back.
  9. i try to position myself in the best line of sight to the car that's about to enter from the intersecting street as soon as i notice it in the distance...but i often find myself closing the gap in front of me as i pass...but when doing so, be set up and positioned to swerve the car in front of me in case it brakes suddenly...and then i'll quickly back off again...but i try to do this, accelerate/deccelerate, so quickly that the car behind me dose'nt really notice and have time to close the gap behind me...if there is someone close behind me i'll also sometimes cover the brake enough to engage the brake light but not apply any pressure to the brakes...so i'm actually accelerating whilst my brake light is on...but doing this automatically makes the driver behind you cover his brakes.
    if i'm on a two or three lane road in heavy traffic, i'll try and briefly place a car between me and the car that's about to pull out by getting on the opposite side of it, whenever possible....don't just try and pick the bad drivers on the road to avoid for your safety...keep an eye out for the good ones too...and hang around them when ever you don't have the luxury to ride betwwen the waves.

    well, that's just what i do, not intended as advice...very interested in other riders ideas, techniques.

    it's a shitty thing to have to deal with everyday because these pricks in their cages often try to approach to turn from the intersecting street at lightening speed, so as they will only have to slow down as little as possible when they merge...sometimes you just have to take a deep breath and whatever happens, happens....theres a couple of old timers i often see on my daily slog...and they seem to have this 'just stare em down and go straight at them' attitude...nothing could make them flynch...perhaps they've concluded that no matter how you approach it theres never any guarantees anyway.
  10. This Hurt report is so old ...... I know much of it's still relevant .... and every time I hear it mentioned I think - out of our MILLIONS the TAC have at their disposal .... could they not commission another such report for TODAY, thorough, quality ..... instead of muarc shit like "we needs more speed cameras" ..... gah ....
    more a rhetorical vent no need to explain things to me ..... gah .....
  11. If you ride with the assumption that some b---- will try and kill you with their car, you get so you can watch almost everything coming..
    Avoiding an accident is also about making it personal. Full face tinted visor, leather suit and gloves, all the protective gear, turns you into robot on a bike youre 'dehumanized' in some car drivers perception. So the idiot drivers take no notice of you. They see but dont care.
    I like bikes with a high "presence" value, race reps dont seem to have it, XV yamaha's certainly dont have it. Harleys do have it. My current GSX1100 has it to a certain extent, the DRZ400 doesnt. People notice certain bikes and all the bad old bikie news stories run through their subconscience and sets up a keep clear message.
    Ride a lot of different bikes and you will notice that some days you keep having close calls and other days no-one comes near you.