Separate names with a comma.
Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.
Discussion in 'Jokes and Humour' started by Mr Flibble, Dec 22, 2009.
Not quite the extravaganza of Peter Jackson's work
Funny, BUT Sauron can sense the presence of the ring. Also, the ring wraiths are shown a couple of times to be riding some sort of dragon thing.
Their terminator one is better
sorry to be pedantic, but he can only really feel that the ring exists so to speak. the onyl time he can pinpoint where it is is when someone puts it on. the whole time frodo and sam are in mordor, sauron is not aware of it but thinks that it is in gondor, and only realises where it is when frodo puts it on going up mount doom. at that time the wraiths were at the black gate where the small group out from minas tirith were, and by then it was to late. I'm pretty sure the eagles were somehow invovled in that fight as well, and were taking on the flying nazgul.
It should also be noted that at the time of the meeting, all the Nazgul had just been washed away downstream by Elrond (in the book that is, the movie has Arwen doing it), and they are without bodies and it takes months for them to make their way back to Mordor to reform. It is unclear if the flying beasts that they ride towards the end of the story were even ready at the time of the meeting, as surely they (or at least some of them) simply would've ridden them far earlier to secure the ring at Weathertop.
It is entirely plausible that the eagles could've been used to drop the ring into Mount Doom far more easily. Tolkein suggests that the eagles are both sentient, sapient, and could speak. As to why they wouldn't want to offer their services to easily help rid their world of the threat of Sauron isn't exactly clear. It is suggested by Tolkein though that the Eagles are actually Maiar (angelic spirits) in bird form, just as is Gandalf (is a Maiar but in human form), and even Sauron, and thus may be bound by the same divine rules that binds Gandalf and prevents him from taking direct action against another Maiar. Taking the ring to Mount Doom to destroy it would be direct action against Sauron, but fighting the winged beasts is merely peripheral and within their allowable actions.
Well, that's me geeked out for the day.
mate, you so just owned me. my knowledge of the silmarillion really isnt that good. Afaik, the first time the nazgul were seen flying is when the company was going down the great river and legolas shot at it and i think brought it down. whether or not the nazgul were ready to fly, they werent flying - and its about as simple as that. All 9 were riding after frodo towards the fords, and 8 of the 9 were accounted for in the flood. Glorfindel was also doing something to the riders, when frodo looked back he was shining white.
The "fell beasts" or Nazgul-birds as Tolkein named-them (outside of the books), are separate to the Nazgul (RingWraiths) themselves. Legolas did shoot a Fell Beast down as you say, but there was no Nazgul aboard it (as far as is known).
You are right though before in that Sauron never actually knows where the ring is until someone puts it on. That is of course the reason for it lying hidden and unclaimed by Sauron for 3000 odd years. No reason why it couldn't be flown in, in a surprise attempt.
Of course one plausible explanation for the eagles not simply flying there is that the eagles themselves were aware of the fell beasts already flying about Mordor at the time, and simply refused to go there, fearing for their own safety, being intelligent beings. If they went, were attacked, and failed, then the ring would immediately fall into control of Sauron.
Unlikely, if they actually are Maiar, as this would mean their powers would be great enough to resist Sauron (they must have done so for three ages already, even against the mightier Morgoth). The 'fell beasts' would be no threat, although the Nazgul share in the power of the other rings.
In Ainulindale it is revealed that not all Maiar descended to Middle Earth for the same reasons. Their part in the music is not truly known to the Children of Eru. They were certainly not at the beck and call of Galdalf.
. I didnt realise that there was no nazgul on board. I also know that they are separate, as i said the nazgul rode the horses earlier, i just grouped it together for simplicity and because i thought the nazgul was riding it. without bothering to check, I think they felt a shadow when it flew over so it could have held one. It was also on the east side of the river, and the nazgul didnt cross to the west (after visiting the shire) until going to isengard. also I seem to remember gandalf making a passing remark about it at some point though my mind might be playing tricks.
Also if your right about the eagles being maiar and not being able to attack sauron, that brings in a perhaps sublime element of the vid or maybe just a pure coincidence - they were blindfolded, so if they didnt know they were attacking sauron and werent doing it intentionally would they be able to do it?
In the silmarilion, how much difficulty did whatever-his-name face when defeating the balrog's? was it harder than the big wolf thing?
I cannot actually recall who defeated Balrogs, was it Fingon or Fingolfin? Maedhros? A high ranking Elf king at least. I don't think it was the mortal Beren, who was killed by the wolf. The wolf Carcharoth's power seems to have stemmed mainly from the Silmaril he swallowed, rather than his own status.
Balrogs (it is hinted) are beings of roughly similar rank to Maiar although very different (which is why Gandalf's battle with one was so monumental and catalytic). They were also not 'fallen' Maiar, but creatures of the outer dark, come to Arda.
Interestingly, the Eagle Thorondor, in rescuing the body of Fingolfin from Morgoth, is said to have gouged the face of Morgoth himself. So if they are Maiar and forbidden to intervene against Sauron, how would they have had the power to attack a Valar directly?
(I know - this is in Jokes and Humour. But maybe it's worth a laugh watching incurables like us take this seriously :wink: )
edit: Got it: http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Balrogs
Only three persons are known to have "defeated" a Balrog and "defeated" is a term that is used loosely since all three died in the process:
Ecthelion of the Fountain fought Gothmog, Lord of Balrogs and High Captain of Angband during the Fall of Gondolin.
Glorfindel fought a Balrog in Cirith Thoronath, on the same occasion, protecting the elves fleeing The Fall of Gondolin.
The third person to fight "succesfully" with a Balrog was Olórin in the Mines of Moria. He was later sent back, resurrected from the dead, with greater power as Gandalf the White.
All three of them paid for the effort with their lives.
Manwe however sent Maia spirits in Eagle form to dwell near Thangorodrim and keep watch on all that Melkor did and assist the Noldor in extreme cases.