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How likely is LACS?

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by GoTeam, Jan 17, 2010.

  1. With events like what happened on Plenty Road last night and two being caught on Burwood Highway at Vermont South racing at 170 recurring every so often, how long do you think it'll be before the LAMS philosophy spreads to cars?

    As someone with Ls or Ps on a bike I know I'd like to have seen that. Without looking at it from a bike rider's perspective (one who is in their early stages), I don't know if it'd make any difference. A lot of young people like to put their foot down. Some do it sometimes (and I was in that category from 16.5-22 years of age) and some do it regularly. I think it has always been like that. Is it time to try and enforce a change or accept that's just how life is? What do you think?

    I don't know whether I pay a little more attention to it now but back when I was on my Ps, I don't recall seeing so many cars like recent/new WRXs, XR and S/SS Falcons and Commodores in the hands of young drivers. There were some of the overseas kids who had rich parents and ended up with M3s and M5s but there weren't too many of them.
  2. It would take a lot longer to compile a lacs list then it will a lams as the numbers of different makes and models of cars is far greater then bikes.

    Nevertheless it is a good idea and one which could possibly reduce l/p plate related car accidents/road toll.
  3. IMO, In Vic, the whole Ps restrictions crap is pretty far up shit creek. I don't think having a LACS system would do anything other than keep pushing it up that creek.
  4. simple, flat, EFI, or carburettored 1.2L or less for P platers.
  5. Andyroo, do you think it woudl just shift the age at which the fatailty occurs (instead of 18 or 19 they'll do the same thing at 20-something)? If that is what you're thinking with your response, I think that'd be the likely scenario but there will always be those who won't do it at 20-something but would have done it at 18/19 so they'd be the ones who'd be 'saved'. It just got me thinking a little. I'm not saying there should or shouldn't be such a scheme. I'm interested in what others think if a scheme was proposed.

    :LOL: I don't think we'd need to go to that extent. The XB I had had no go whatsoever. It'd move a little up to 40 km/h then I could make a coffee before it'd get to 100. It was 4.1L but the shittiest of shit designs ever in terms of getting power out of it. It was very reliable though and easy to work on.
  6. Yeah I reckon it would just change the age of fatalities up a bit.

    I think it's like the whole doof-doof type people. 18/19 year olds driving lowered cars with the stereo loud, to be noticed. If they can't do it at 19 they'll do it at 20. They need to do it early to get it out of their system and grow up.

    If P-plater hoons can't drive the fast car they want to drive when they're 19, they'll get one when they are a bit older. Then they'll have some years of not sliding around corners to make up for. People will still crash. And they'll still die.

    Only the ages at which they die will change.
  7. a 1.2 liter efi can still loose it on a wet corner doing 130 and wrap around a tree
  8. Vic had pretty much that system previously with a power to weight and engine size to weight rule, but changed to the NSW laws which banned ALL V8s, Turbos (except some diesels) supercharged or modified engine (for performance) cars. In other words they cannot drive an old 253 Holden one tonner , ute sedan etc, but they can drive a brand new XR6 Falcon, SV6 Commodore etc. that would blow the doors off most small older V8s. You can also drive a V6 C series Merc but not the 4 cyl Compressor with 2/3rds the power! Go figure? Stupid legislation!
  9. A learner approved scheme for p plater restrictions could be implemented, but not for L platers as they need to be in the family car if mums and dads are to train them unlike a bike where you are out on your own, and i dont think many parents will let them floor the v8 round corners or buy another car just to teach the kids to drive
  10. Of course they can. Someone in a 1.2L could also lose it on a straight road like the fatality I'm referring to. It was a late model XR6 on a straight road and it was reported there were 5 passengers (so they must have squished in 4 in the back). The reported estimate was that they were doing 140 when they lost it. Without knowing the road very well (I've only been along Plenty Road a handfull of times before), I'm not sure what went on for them to clip the kerb then lose control where it is straight. Put that together with the speed they were doing and I think the first thing to be picked on will probably be the power of the car. The maximum power output of current everyday sixes are the same or more than what were HSVs when I was in my mid-teens. A VN HSV put out 195 kW when new. They're the specs of the family car sixes around 2006.

    A friend of mine used to do crazy speeds in his HQ ute when he was in his late teens and its suspension is a far cry from a BA/BF XR6. He never crashed the HQ.

    The XR6 driver reportedly ended up clipping the kerb for some reason then the speed gave them no chance after he'd lost control. Reducing the power available to a young driver would either mean they won't hit that speed or they'll take longer to get there. Smaller capacity / lower powered engines take care of that part but the fact the car went off the road was the biggest problem together with the circumstances that led to it. That's the really difficult part to do something about. I'm not saying don't worry about the speed. Personally, I think allowing young kids to be able to drive cars that go like what faster V8s went like when I was on my Ps doesn't add up given what the deal is with LAMS. My Hyo couldn't get to 140. It just couldn't. For all intents and purposes, $1.20 was its real everyday ceiling. Any Falcon/Commodore from the early/mid 1990s onwards will get to 140 quickly enough and continue onwards, and in that case of a Ford, to its 180 limited top speed for its autos. The risks are greater on a bike but there's no parity between Ps on a bike and in a car.

    After this spiel, I'm thinking more and more it is just a fact of life - some kids will always drive too fast for what they're capable of handling peer pressure or not and will come unstuck. Putting them in 1.2L cars won't change that because there are always corners.
  11. And you can fall out of bed and break your neck. Your point is? Oh I know, let them have supercharged 8.0L v12 jag or merc, and the ones that survive get to procreate.

    And for clarification, a 3cyl 1L carby charade can reach 150-160 on a flat stretch long enough, it just doesn't take less than 20 seconds to get there.

    its about power,and knowledge. maybe we should move to a Scandinavian system.
  12. I have a radical suggestion ...... how about we actually teach people to drive?

    XX hours in the car with mum and/or dad is not learning to drive.
  13. Remember people, treat this thread like a rider down thread, don't speculate on what happened in this crash, or any other, unless you actually know the details of said crash.

    As has been shown before, families and friends do read forums.
  14. I think the power/weight ratio system held the most merit, 'cause at least then it's a reasonably sensible metric, unlike "Anything with 8 cylinders or forced induction is dangerous!"

    There are plenty of 4 or 6 cylinder, naturally aspirated mid-engined and rear-engined sportscars which will teach people to drive properly (in the same way that being thrown in the deep end of a pool will teach you to swim properly), because much of their agility comes from expecting the driver to know what he or she is doing. Most new and inexperienced drivers won't.

    Heck, the Lotus Exige is "learner legal" in NSW, 'cause it's just a 4-cylinder grocery getter... (with a 0-100 time close to 5 seconds, and mid-engine handling).

    But... Kids will lark about and explore the limits of any car they own, performance or not. Frankly, they should. Ideally on a closed skidpan or racetrack! But I do believe that learning how big the performance envelope is, and what happens when you cross the boundaries, is crucial to being a safe driver. Treating a vehicle like a cute little bubble which takes you from A-B and runs on fuel, oil and water is just asking for trouble.
  15. A lot of talkback this morning has been about how young men's brains are hard-wired to ignore risk. This is a biological reality, not a social issue. Below the age of about 21-25, most males are simply made (it's in their genes) to feel superhuman. This phenomena fades as you get older, and is also far less common in females.
    In light of this, driver education alone is going to struggle in dealing with risk taking behaviours. I don't believe we should try to entirely eliminate the risk taking imperative, but I'm sorry to say that I think we need to contain it a bit. Access to a safe environment to do so was very effective for me, maybe that's part of the answer.
    Some commentators have suggested an age-based curfew. It's easy for me to talk about because it won't affect me, but I'm sorely tempted to agree that it might actually work. At a cost, of course.
    LACS and power/speed limits don't do much when they are ignored as they certainly were this past weekend.

  16. ...and how exactly does *that* make money for the government?

  17. How likely is something like "LACS?" I don't think it's very likely because of the sheer scale of the task, so many cars to work through, what do you make the criteria and so on.

    I also know it's not a blanket ban on turbo/supercharged cars (most people seem to think it is), but the system still leaves a lot to be desired. Based on my driving experience from my younger and (somewhat) stupider days, the power levels should be brought down, down to a level that excludes cars similar to XR6 Falcons.

    Anyway, you can argue it until your blue in the face, but something needs to be done to address the problem of younger people being killed in this way, slowing the car down a bit will help sometimes but it's not the solution.

    Obviously education would play a huge role in it, but really it's the attitude problem towards driving in general that needs to be addressed first.
  18. More people alive to pay tax and get booked speeding!

  19. I think the issue is much simpler, if heroin addicts get put on the methadone program. Then there should be more drag strips and tracks for people to get their thrill on.
  20. So what did you drive in your youth eh, Thera? While completely irrelevant to the argument, I'm still interested to know.