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How do reduce the road toll, cars and bikes

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' at netrider.net.au started by TYRUSS, Mar 2, 2007.

  1. Hi everone. I would like your comment on one of two parts to reducing the road toll which I have been selling to friends of mine for many years.

    The biggest problem we have at the moment is that the goverment actually believes that the training that most people get to obtain their license is enough to sustain them for the rest of their lives. We all know that this is not true.
    I will give you a dreamed up example (I am going to be sexist so please don't judge this soley on this basis)
    A girl (say 17) who lives with her mum has no interest in driving a car, one day she gets a job which has no access to public transport. So that she can commute to work she has to get a license. She go's to a driving school with the sole aim of getting a drivers license as quickly as possible, which is right or wrong the aim of the driving school. The girl then does her test which she has been trained by the driving school to pass which she does. What on going training does she receive after she has passed he license ? NONE any bad habits that she may have picked up will never be corrected. Because she has no interest in driving in the first place she has no interest in becomeing a better driver !
    How can we correct her behaviour and that of other drivers who have bad habits ?
    I believe Peter Brock had the same idea as I have, and that is a series of comercials 20+ showing people the right and wrong way how to drive some of these things will be very simple but as WE all know it seems to be very hard for your average driver to understand.
    My first suggestions would be the following.

    1) How to merge with high speed traffic.
    2) Indicating to indicate your intentions to other drivers
    3) How a roundabout works
    4) The dangers running amber/red lights
    5) How to sit in a car and have control
    6) Good drivers have both hands on the wheel (not one draging on the tar like a monkey lol)
    7) Looking ahead for danger
    8) Seeing danger
    9) Driving at a speed that suits the conditions (regardless of the speed limit)
    10) Your headlights at dusk are so others can see YOU.
    11) Your mirrors are for checking not making decishions.
    12) How to move with traffic so that traffic continues to move.
    13) Why it's important to restrain children properly in a car (you don't have to crash to injure a child in a car)
    14) Wet weather driving
    15) Doctor Carls Ad for micro sleeps (this ad is a perfect example of the type of ads that should be on TV.

    I'm sure that you guy's and gals can add to my list and with a bit of thought it could be perfected.
    The goverment is currently brainwashing people to believe that so long as they don't speed they will be safe, we know that it's not true but there are those out there that do believe that the only thing they have to do to be a safe driver is obay the speed limit.
    If you think this idea has merit sell it to those who don't ride, maybe one day the goverment will take notice and start to educate all those who are pointing cars not driving them.
  2. I hold a Commercial Pilots Licence. It was hard to get, involved many hours of dual instruction including learning to deal with flight regimes that are referred to as "unusual attitudes" (nothing to do with mindset, all to do with being upside down!) I had to learn not only how to handle the aircraft, I also had to learn the physics of flight, the effects of different environmental factors, law, mechanics, electronics, humnan factors (why we do what we do) and a whole raft of other topics that would make your head spin.
    And I have to be retested every two years.
    In my humble opinion, until the day rolls around when it is as hard to get a drivers/riders licence as it was for me to get my Pilots Licence, then the government is paying nothing but lip service to road safety, most laws are enforced merely as revenue raising exercises, and initiatives such as vehicle confiscation is nothing but a political kneejerk reaction to win the next election playing on the fears (mostly instilled by said government) of the uneducated masses.

  3. Of course its not true.

    The question is what evidence have you got which proves the Gov thinks otherwise; because I've never heard the Minister of Transport, or anyone else in Gov for that matter make such a claim?

  4. Spot on, we need to make it harder and have more compulsory education, possibly starting in school.
  5. Just to throw a spanner in the works, you are all aware of course that the road toll, measured properly, is the lowest it has ever been since cars were introduced?
    By properly, I mean measured as a ratio of fatalities to number of registered vehicles.
  6. And when would riders be educated to such standards too? Might get rid of the six month squids..........

    Regards, Andrew.
  7. I've put up part 2 I know it's far from perfect but I'm trying to put forth an idea that could be built on. We all know the biggest problem is car drivers and for the first time in recent years anyway, new riders !
  8. The attitude and lack of training is across the board, don't try and merely blame car drivers. I see just as many (perhaps more per unit) bad motorcycle riders out there. Should I mention the guy on a bike yesterday, in the rain, who overtook 8 cars and a semi over double lines, and forced oncoming traffic to take evasive action?
    Nothing will change, as no one will elect a government who enforces a law requiring $5-10k worth of driver training to get a licence.
    Hell, we can't even appropriately enforce penalties for repeat offenders as it is, how are you going to educate people?

    Regards, Andrew.
  9. the best mediam we have available TV. Or would you rather lots of ads showing the end result of crashing without the cause of crashing ?
  10. It's medium not mediam.
    TV ads doesn't teach someone to drive.
    What are you going to show people how to control a front end slide in their car in 30 seconds in an advertisement?! :LOL:
    You haven't got a clue...........

    Regards, Andrew.
  11. In school would be a good idea.
    So much they teach you there is just BS to teach your brain to learn, why not add something of use?
  12. You don't like this subject for some reason do you?

    Anyway, I always though that drivers should be forced to ride a motorcycle for six months or so before driving a car. Probably wouldn't help the road toll a great deal (and I know this isn't realistic), but would cetrainly make drivers who survived the first six months alot more road aware. Should help to bring a little reality into their two ton armchair driving real life oblivious existence... (No i'm not suggesting gene/driver pool cleansing of the messy kind)

    Perhaps a little more focus on the physics of what they're doing while driving a car, and build some respect for the actual danger of being on the road. No you can't load the game and try again.

    Just seems to me that "respect" for driving is becoming a lost art, see people all the time paying more attention to themselves in the mirror, trying to look cool and such things rather than paying attention to what is the most dangerous thing that they're ever likely to do in their lifetime. The ERA of stop/go toys for cars which require no understanding to operate whatsoever doesn't help either. The SUV phenomenom is a perfect example of the obvious lack of respect for physics and surroundings. I drive a 4b by the way and I'm painfully aware of the fact that it is in fact a light truck, and will not corner/stop particularly well.

    By the way, I spend about 3-4 hours on an average day on the road (sometimes alot more) and I don't pretend to be a perfect driver, god knows we all have our moments, even when trying to behave as well as possible. Guess this is just a by product of being under alot of time pressure, increased traffic and such things. I can tell you for sure that riding a motorcycle certainly opened my eyes up/scared the shit out of me enough to change my driving habbits very quickly.
  13. Cars become safer every year so you can remove your spanner from the works thanks. :wink:

    How many Kingswoods do you know of with airbags and ABS?

    That still doesn't make them deathproof though or improve the skills of bad drivers.
  14. For sure. We only see the death toll, we don't regularly see the injury toll.

    I think getting your license should be an expensive and time consuming operation. This (hopefully) would have a two fold effect, firstly people might actually take driving seriously . Secondly it might discourage people from driving and put more people on public transport or push bikes, wouldn't that be good for traffic congestion and the environment.

    People might throw up a hoohaar about the cost to get your license but they will get over it. If that's the way it works then people will find a way to work around it. People in country towns might need some assistance because public transport there has always been less than acceptable.
  15. Strange - I have been sharing this same vision with others as well. I even went so far as to put the basis of my thoughts on paper and submitted them to the TAC, and had them published on their web site at www.spokes.com.au .

    Last year I put a concept together and submitted it via a VMAC member, and he arranged a meeting with the TAC, where we discussed the proposal/idea. My concept was "not conventional" and went outside their "conventional thinking". I'm not going to give away my idea, but they rejected it - because it was too difficult/hard for them to handle.

    My VMAC contact thought it was a great idea - but we didn't seem to get anywhere - I'm not sure that we are very high on their radar.... The problem is - when you ride a motorcycle, you understand what works and what won't. I believe that riders teaching riders or communicating messages to riders is the only system that really works.

    Netrider seems to be a good arena for riders to learn/communicate - its a pity that TAC et al can't see the value of throwing some money/publicity at valuable assets like this, where riders naturally gravitate/congregate. Sure, TAC/VicRoads have their own web site - but how may riders really use it??? :(
  16. An analysis in the UK by their DOT of nearly 50 years of accident stats, reported in the mag BIKE, found that the major cause of accidents - accounting for nearly a third - was failing to notice what was coming up, either because of tiredness or distraction.

    Distractions are increasing courtesy of the increased number of controls both in cars and on bikes; stereos, MP3 players, GPSs etc.

    Exceeding the speed limit accounted for less than 5% of crashes.

    So increased attention and awareness have to be a key objective of any training or education campaign.
  17. That actually happens here in the ACT. To get your car L's you need to complete a course called "Road Ready" which is done in high school. Unfortunately since it's one of the courses that just teaches you that speeding is bad, drink driving is bad, driving tired is bad, this is what happens in an accident it doesn't actually make you "Road Ready" at all. There's also "Road Ready Plus" for P-platers that gives you 4 more points and lets you not have to show your P's, but it's more of the same. Though you do get some interesting facts, like stopping distances and how long it takes booze to clear your system.

    There's always plenty of interesting facts about road safety coming from the UK, but no one ever seems to listen. There was a big statement put out by a very senior UK copper that said there was a fairly high percentage of accidents caused by excessive speed. However, in only ~5% IIRC of these crashes excessive speed meant someone travelling higher than the speed limit. The other 95% was people driving to fast for the conditions, rain, snow, fog, poor/busy roads etc.
  18. People learn this kind of thing best from experience. From it they derive their own rules.

    Hence advanced driving/riding courses. You need to be able to skid, spin out, bump etc with minimal consequences, then learn how to avoid them.
  19. While in some ways I agree, that would need significant spending on upgrading public transport - not just in country areas. I'm not sure what it's like in other states, but Melbourne's PT system leaves a lot to be desired. Peak hour is a joke, and we're not far off Japan's system of pushing people into trains so the doors can close. Add the fact that the trains are slow, uncomfortable and don't service many areas and you have a PT system that is completely inadequate.

    As an example, while I was studying it was 2.5 hours by public transport to the university - by car, it was about an hour. Who in their right mind would spend more than twice the time in an uncomfortable train and bus seat to get somewhere?

    The idea is a reasonable one, but requires billions of dollars in spending on public transport.
  20. I think the bike situation is far worse then it is with cars.

    For a bike, to get your Ls, all you have to do is show you can handle a bike in terms of starting, stopping and turning, followed by doing a piss easy Multple choice test ion a computer.

    At 16 and 9 months you can be on a motorbike with no eexperience on the road at all, and your all by yourself. Some of these people don't even know basic road rules and have no idea what sorts of things they should be doing to increase there safety. If they are doing something wrong, they have no one to tell them and explain why what they are doing is wrong and what they should be doing instead.

    This is followed up by a Ps test, which is still done off road. Sure there is an on road component, but unless you do something extremely dangerous AND the instructor sees it you will not fail. To pass you have to show that you can do cone weaves and a u turn in 6.1m, none of which demonstates ability to be a compitent safe rider on the road, dealing with on road situations such as traffic and people doing stupid things. To top it off, the things they test you on your really don't even need on the road. I would far rather do a u turn with my feet down if i feel the need to then drop it. If I can't do it in 6.1 meters, I can quite happily and safely roll my bike back a bit to make it.

    A rider who is quite safe on the road can eaily fail their Ps, whilst an unsafe rider can have the ability to pass there Ps because they may have practiced off road in a carpark, and then are not tested on anything again until they are something like 65 years old.

    This is what it is in NSW, I don't know how it is in other states, but my attitude is that these tests are tests for the sake of tests so the rta can make more money out of people, and really have no hope of sorting out the riders that should and shouldn't be on the road.