Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

How do i lean over more?

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' at netrider.net.au started by HANDSY, Apr 14, 2009.

  1. hey,
    this is more aimed at the more experienced but answers from anyone will all be read with thanks.
    when i first started riding, like everyone i had the chicken strips, after not long they were all gone from the rear and i was using all the rear tire. the front i was using about half of it.
    i ride the black spur ALOT so i use that to track my progress.
    i now have chicken strips back! im hanging off the bike more and working hard on technique and just cant quite seem to tilt it over that last little bit. i dont no why, i try very hard to but it doesnt go. yet im using double the amount of my front tire as before, the chicken strips are the same width front and rear pretty much.
    is there any tips, advice, anything, about how to get it to go that little further? what should i be doing to provide the most stable bike while it is leaned over?
    im trying very hard to get knee down (please dont really want the keep that for the track, why would you do that, your and idiot, bla bla bla dont waste both our time) and am getting very close but not going to happen till i get back to using the entire tire.
    thanks all


     
     Top
  2. Hit up a track day. Seriously. You get a controlled environment with the same corners to practice your technique without having all those demons in the back of your mind.

    Forget about getting your knee down. If you are serious about practicing your technique it will happen without you thinking about it. If you go into a corner and find yourself thinking mid-corner "geez it must be close" your just wasting your time. Good lines with a lot of practice and it will happen.
     
     Top
  3. dont think i quite explained it right.
    theres no demons so to speak, im more than happy to go harder and lower, and i think i am on the edge than it turns out im not, just cant judge it. its as if i have got use to where i go to and falsely think its the edge.
    i figured that by just trying to drop the knee ill never get there, i think about everything but it, just get a good line, good throttle control, dont twist body, slide off just a little and drop shoulder.
    just need to incorporate using the whole tire like i was with how im now riding the bike.
    i also do plan on doing a track day or two, really keen.
     
     Top
  4. Your misguided effort of trying to put your knee down is causing you to hang more of your weight of the bike, thus decreasing it's lean angle at the same speed.

    Forget about your knee and focus on riding well instread. Good body position and lines will have you riding faster and if the knee happens so scrape as a result then yippee for you. :)
     
     Top
  5. There is a quick way to find the very edge of your tyre, lean it over until you slide off, then you know you have reached the edge. I'm serious. But you probably don't want to try that on the road, this is why the track is a much better option for finding/hunting your limit.

    Don't use chicken strips to judge how "good" you think you are riding. They are purely for bragging rights at coffee stops.

    Does your bike still have the feeler pegs on it?
     
     Top
  6. as long as you have tread left on the front, its safe to try and progress further on the rear (assuming there is tread left there too of course).

    if you are cornering consistently, and you find your chicken strips to be consistent, ie, it doesnt vary different days/roads as to where you are leaning over a tonne or not much at all (excluding weather conditions etc), then, just push in.

    i say this, having been there myself. im getting off the bike more, giving me more tyre to work with, and wondering how far i can push it still. use your strips as a measurement. push a little bit further for a while, see how the mark goes down. it will take getting used to, leaning the bike over that much more whilst hanging off, it will feel like you might be pushing too far, but as long as you take it gradually, i think you will be fine.

    basically push in harder, consistently, until you notice the strips reducing, thus you know you are tipping in deeper, and reaching the limit. suggest you do it on the spur or another road you know well, and is clean and consistent.

    also, what tyres are you running?
    i went from BT045's to GPRa10's, and went from no strips and scraping peg feelers here and there, to strips (meaning lean left to go) and yet scraping pegs after i'd removed the feelers :twisted:

    tyre profile can make a huge difference in lean angle possibilities.


    just keep practicing, keep pushing, and be willing to lowside to find your limit :grin:
     
     Top
  7. agreed, i am going the same speed or faster than ever, and have more body off the bike than before. i do really try and focus on body position and lines and figure that the better they get it will all come together with time. it jus seems im stuck at the moment and not getting better worse.



    i have thort about this, yet it doesnt appeal to me as much as just checking my tire after each ride.


    my horse has ARROW MAXS for shoes haha, risky business?
    thats my plan, practicing on the spur as its close for me to get to and i no it well and the surface is almost fault free. i have got very consistent strips.

    thanks for all the input guys
     
     Top
  8. Get yourself some Alpha GPR10's.

    Best thing you can do.
     
     Top
  9. Ok...firstly...the wrong answer....but it will get you what you want...
    Get waaaaay off the bike and reach out with your knee till you feel like you are going to split in two...then just hit the corner hard enough that you have to lean further than you ever have, and your knee will drag...But you'll look like you are riding to try and drag your knee - like a tosser.

    Now the RIGHT ANSWER!...
    Get some top tyres if you have'nt already. And go to the track for the reasons stated before (controlled enviroment, lots of space, and no distractions etc...that's not just bs - it's true!)

    btw...I am very familiar with the Spur...
    It took me a full summer of pretty intense riding from having had my knee within 2 inches of the tarmac for years, to actually touching it down, while still having good control over the bike AND while remaining inside my own 100% of ability.

    The only way to get your knee down legitimately is by developing AND CONSOLIDATING your technique and skill level to a point that when you do finally drag a knee, you are NOT exceeding your 100%. That takes time to develop, and should'nt be rushed.
    Dragging a knee is a by-product of all these other things and will occur when you have reached the right level of performance, pretty much without you trying at all...any other time, I don't call it legitimate.

    Lecture over... :wink: :LOL:

    I know that you feel like it is just there...close enough for it to happen if you just pushed it a little harder, and maybe it will...but to be able to do it consistantly with good bike control...give yourself time to get there. Then pick your corners carefully - There are alot of variables you can't control on the roads.

    John.
     
     Top
  10. appreciated john, totally agree. tearing a groin to do it is not my plan nor is getting it now and than just by luck.
    its good to get the opinions of more experienced riders.
    the main thing is i want to get faster, take better lines and control the bike, just continue to improve my skill. getting knee down is something i no wont happen over night, but at least practicing is a good reason to go for more riding haha.i want to get back to using all the tire and leaning more, while continue to keep using more of the front as i am now and trust that in time, possibly after a few track days and some tips it will happen, and ill be able to control it and do it consistently, but i want to improve my riding as a whole, not just bashing my knee on the deck.
    i need to get out and ride with some more experienced riders, i find i ride really well when im with others who are better, i watch and learn very quickly.

    when leaning off the bike and leaning the bike, weight should be on the inside peg?
    should your body be off straight to the side or side and a little forward, if you can understand that?

    cheers
     
     Top
  11. This is an excellent way to progress your learning!
     
     Top
  12. How does that work? I can't imagine that if you're leaning the bike lots and scraping the pegs, and then lean less you can still scrape the pegs. I don't care how good your riding is, you'd have to bend the pegs to get that result.
     
     Top
  13. You're confusing two seperate ideas.

    The lean angle v/s hanging off for less lean is a seperate idea from the tyre profile idea. What Nibor was saying is that some tyres have profies that will allow for a much greater lean angle than others. Some tyres allow 45 degree angles, others allow up to 55 degree lean angles... So yes it is possible to run out of rubber on some profiles easily, yet not run out of rubber on another set of tyres despite scraping pegs. This particular idea really depends on the tyres chosen and the ground clearence offered by the bike's geometry and is a seperate discussion to the hanging off the bike to reduce the angle at a given speed. :)
     
     Top
  14. Knee Down and Chicken Strips…
    The two measures are misguided, and both of them counter the other.
    The more you get off the bike, the more the bike stands up for a given speed. So you get bigger strips.
    So if working on these two things are your objective you will have to do them separately.
    In reality your knee should hit the deck at about the same time as you run out of lean on your tire. This would mean that you have it all balanced.
    When I started moving well on the bike the size of my chicken strips increased, but I was going faster and safer.
    So is your objective to be a poser? Or is it to ride faster and safer?
     
     Top
  15. objective -
    to ride faster and safer?
    going faster and safer
    have it all balanced.
     
     Top
  16. This may be a "captain obvious" question but hey, indulge this newbie. How fast would you have to be going to get that kind of lean happening? Yes I know it would depend on the corner and that sort of stuff but roughly speaking...

    Would this mean going over the speed limit :shock:
     
     Top
  17. At the rider bros knee down course they are apparently doing it in 2nd on a 250.
    It all depends on the bike, and how tight you are turning. Dougz Clair and Rob can fill you in
     
     Top
  18. +1!

    Search on youtube for motorcycle gymkhana - particularly the Japanese police - motorcycles scraping footpegs while executing tight U-turns and circles. :cool:
     
     Top
  19. And because they are throwing the bikes back and forth a lot they don’t get out of the saddle much, the just put the shoulder down but leave there butt where it is
     
     Top
  20. Thanks guys, I will check it out :)
     
     Top