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N/A | National How and why you should fight ALL fines – by an ex-Police Sergeant.

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by goz, Sep 24, 2012.

  1. What you guys think of this?

    I'm in 2 minds about it so not sure

    My name is Stan. I am a retired Sergeant of Police in Victoria for 14 years. I was also a police prosecutor at times, so I know what I am talking about. I spent half my life in Magistrates Court during my time in the Force. I was only ever a very fair copper, and I am proud of my time in the job, looking after the interests of Victorians, often to the detriment of my family and my health.
    I never booked any driver for a trifling offence ***8220;ever***8221;. People committing trifling offences commonly used to get a warning and a licence / vehicle check. It had to be serious before I booked anyone.
    I am so annoyed at what is happening these days, in what I call ***8220;Indiscriminate revenue gathering***8221; It is absolutely disgusting. The government and the Police Force need to hang their heads in shame. If you did a survey of current serving members of the police forces in this country, you would be hard pushed to find many who disagree with me.
    I know how the legal system works, and I know how to beat the system. This is how to do it, and if about 10% of all drivers booked follow my specific instructions, then the entire system will crash and become unworkable to the extent, that the government will have no choice but to stop issuing fines for every type of traffic offence. The whole lot of them. Seriously.
    I do not feel guilty about coming out with this information, as I think it***8217;s about time someone stood up for hard working, civil minded, law abiding taxpayers in this country, who are being screwed.
    This is very simple and very basic. The idea is to clog up the system in the traffic camera office and the courts by drivers exercising their rights to remain innocent until proven guilty.
    SIMPLE BASIC LEGAL STEPS TO FOLLOW***8230;***8230;***8230;***8230;***8230;.

    1. Do not accept the alleged offence. There are numerous valid reasons to dispute every single alleged offence. Often the charges are incorrect or the evidence is illegally or incorrectly gathered.

    2. Challenge it, tell them that you are going to defend the matter. Make them earn their miserable $150 or $200 or whatever. They have to prepare evidence and witnesses. Just the wages for the camera operator or the Policeman on the day of the court, will be more than the actual fine. You are also taking a camera operator or a member of the Police Force off the street for the day. But it won***8217;t get to that point***8230;..read on***8230;.

    3. If a court date is ever set, and it does not suit you, do not accept it, ask for a delay to a time and place that suits you.

    4. When they re set the date, delay it as often as possible. keep pleading not guilty all through the process. You have every right to be sick, or go for an adjournment if the day does not suit for any legitimate reason. For example you may have pressing family or work commitments which prevent you from attending a particular court on a particular day.

    5. If it ever actually gets to court, (which is unlikely if everyone does this) and if you are unwell that day, ring the court in the morning and tell them that you cannot make it as you are sick. The camera operator, and a police prosecutor will already be at court, and will be greatly inconvenienced, by having to come back another day. The whole time this is going on, the amount of paperwork involved at the traffic camera office is huge. Several staff are involved, and it rapidly becomes very costly, probably running into thousands. ***8230;..with me so far***8230;..keep reading***8230;***8230;.

    6. The court system is then placed under such a massive load by people who wanted ***8220;their day in court***8221; that it simply will not be able to cope unless they open up about another 50 magistrates courts, and this is obviously going to cost the government a lot more than any revenue raised. If all the above fails, which is highly unlikely***8230;.and you actually go to court and get convicted***8230;***8230;you have a right of appeal. Make sure you appeal the conviction. You don***8217;t need to be a rocket scientist to see what happens. They are not going to spend millions chasing hundreds.

    7 Tell everyone you know to challenge their alleged offences, and the entire system will crash within a few weeks.



  2. It seems the court system takes the attitude that innocent people do not have a place there. If you take a traffic matter to court and you (usually )lose then the fines are doubled or trebled.
    In previous times the huge number of unpaid fines forced the legal system to inplement registration cancellations as a means of forcing people to pay their fines.
    You may be innocent until proven guilty but you will be found guilty because in most cases you are.
  3. It's just getting most folks to challenge that's the problem. I'm sure it'll work though.
    Most people (me includuded) have paid up as its (easier)
    Lucky for me, we live in an area that isn't saturated with the cameras, otherwise I proberly would! Especially for minor transgressions.
  4.  Top
  5. What's the source Goz?
    I highly doubt its origins imho
  6. I doubt it's really a cop. Makes for a more compelling cover though. It's not a new idea and I doubt enough people will be bothered for it to actually work.
  7. After reading the first few sentences, and having served in the police myself, this stinks of bullshit in my opinion.

    He said he was a prosecutor at times, but then said he spent half of his time in the force in Magistrates court. So which one is it?

    Also, I have never, ever heard an ex Sergeant refer to themselves as, "A sergeant of police".

    Just my 2c though. Could be legit, but I doubt it.
  8. Just perused that site, they are crackpots.
  9. Still happens. However, the sheriff's office will only receive a warrant? after it becomes overdue. I do believe it won't become overdue if you have elected to go to court.

    The fact is that what is written is mostly correct. If enough people did elect to go to court it would take whole separate court rooms to deal with the matters. Justus was also saying something I didn't bother to read properly about a 12 month period - that may apply too.

    I do doubt however that most evidence used against a person would be illegal. Looking at UDLOSE's case - and even FireRed's - Cops may take action that some people think is dangerous, and may even be legitimately dangerous, the evidence still stands .
  10. .....
  11. :LOL: First thing I thought of as well before I saw your post. He does not even give full or correct name to verify whether he in fact is an ex-serving member of Police. The more you read, the more it's apparent why..

    Read it all before.. on scam websites

    The article is a load of crap TBH.

    If the defendant is pleading not guilty, the case will be adjourned to a summary case conference which gives the parties the opportunity to negotiate issues in dispute, prior to the full hearing of the case. At the request of the defendant the hearing can also be adjourned, even if the defendant is pleading guilty. However, the courts take a much stricter view of when to allow adjournments, so that any more than one adjournment is unlikely to be allowed without the matter being considered by a Magistrate.

    If you could adjourn a case for an indefinite number of times or reasons as Stan suggests, everyone would! When a defendant fails to appear in court and is not brought to the Court on a warrant of apprehension, the prosecution may bring an ex-parte application to Court seeking orders that the Magistrate find the charge proved. The penalty may also be imposed ex parte. Alternatively, the Magistrate will issue a warrant requiring you to attend the Court for sentence.

    His claims of being an ex-member of police and/or prosecutor look bogus.

  12. I think that, regardless of the problems I have with some aspects of policing and the legal system, as a motorcyclist it's just NOT in my interest to see anarchy reign over the roads. I'd rather have to contest the injustices than deal with lawlessness.
    • Like Like x 1
  13. BS.

    That is all.
  14. I got stupider reading that
  15. The underlying idea is interesting, ie if we took every matter to court it would tie up the legal system.

    Of course the goal post would be moved shortly after, so it's a nice thought & not much more.
  16. The logic is absolutely impeccable. If 10% of the population simultaneously decided to oppose every fine, then police resources would be stretched to the point where it would become impossible to enforce anything. I believe this is known as "civil disobedience".

    It's still horseshit, because at the end of the day I think most of us would prefer that the cops had time to deal with ACTUAL criminals, rather than wasting their time with dickheads, so we just cop it sweet when we know we fvcked up and let them get on with it.
  17. Well, that's based on the theory that the cops, given their druthers, will work on real crime.

    The reality seems to be that if it won't net them glory (finding a serial killer or missing Irish girl) or money (fines), why would they bother? Property crime isn't glamorous, neither is chasing down stuff on the road that is dangerous but more work than giving out a speeding ticket, like educating people about how stupid tailgating is, or not using turn signals. Note I didn't say fining, I said educating.

    What absolute nonsense, anyone who believes that and pursues it is going to be the one out of pocket by 'thousands'. If you are booked for speeding by a roadside camera, you were speeding. etc etc etc

    Does anyone seriously suggest that they go to all this trouble to book offenders while leaving ANY possibility for their offence notices to be challenged?

    As smee, says, crackpots.....
  19. Whether they actually do the job or not (personally, I tend to believe they do), the fact is that most of us would rather they used their time doing that job than wasting time dealing with retards with a chip on their shoulder.

    You fvck up, cop it sweet and learn from it. Don't be a douchebag about it and waste my money on your petty shenanigans, thanks.