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Honda... Seriously wtf?

Discussion in 'Bike Reviews, Questions and Suggestions' started by trd2000, Aug 8, 2013.

  1. Dimiti, I'm sorry.... You were right.

    I just noticed Honda have reworked the cbr600. Mostly cosmetic, a bit more oomph in the low-mid range, big bore front forks. ... Basically it's the old bike with better looks.

    I like cbrs and the cbr600 has a firm place in my short list of what to get at any time..... Well it did.

    What he hell is with linking the back brake to the front?? I can't think of ANY good reason for it. It's obviously not popular with cbr buyers, cause they've reduced the amount the front brakes come on for this year, but what the hell sort of scooter riding wanktards do Honda have working for them these days?

    I might be a bit of an exception here cause I often trail some rear through corners, particularly slow ones or rainy roundabouts, to smooth power delivery and keep the chain tight... The LAST thing I want is some nerdy "I know what u want better than you do" rider "aid" applying front brake and increasing my likelihood of a front end wash out... If I want front brake I've got a lever for it... fcuk off.
  2. Dont buy it then-problem solved,its not the bike for you.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. Yes Honda like the link brake system . I had a Vfr 800 for 5 years with the linked brakes. and to be honest never noticed it . On the road or track did 40,000ks on that bike . But a lot of guys don't like the idea
    • Like Like x 2
  4. I told ya :)
    I think Honda has that linked ABS on a number of models.

    But even if I theoretically liked the idea of that I wouldn't buy CBR after test riding a few other bikes.
    It felt better when parked :)
    (for me of course).
  5. We've had our ST1100A for seven years and a 140,000 kms and the ABS/CBS has never been an issue.

    It's never changed my riding as prior to my 1100 I used both brakes as the norm and washed off speed before a corner. Now, If I misjudge the speed dialing in a little extra counter-steer will see the bike take the corner ok.

    Also as a flow on effect of the European legislation any bike sold globally will be so equipped.
  6. Application of rear brake does not result in immediate front brake activation unless lock-up is sensed, allowing an experienced rider to use rear brake in a normal manner during spirited riding.

    Combined ABS is offered as an optional configuration on Honda’s CBR600RR and CBR1000RR...
    • Like Like x 1
  7. You might want to educate yourself on how Hondas linked brakes work, and maybes put them through there paces to see for yourself.

    Applying the rear brake does not immediately engage the front brakes, jamming the rear brake doesn't jam on the front brakes.

    Benefits far out weigh any misconceptions of what is happening when you apply the brakes, when they do what they are designed to do they just make you look good where you otherwise may have dropped the bike or locked up wheels

    You have a computer making a few hundred decisions every second, while your human brain might manage 1 or 2 and doesn't have a direct feed of data such as rotational speed and rate of deceleration for each wheel which the computer does.

    Like most vehicle technologies, it is developed for racing and filters down to production models.

    With all of the above in mind, if you don't want to adopt new technologies buy a bike with mechanical drum brakes.
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Linked brakes are yet another example of dumbing down motorbike riding. It's not about whether it works better for the 99% (it probably does), the issue is distancing direct control of the bike and sanitizing the riding experience.

    Linked brakes are one step closer to appliance bike riding...
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. @un_majstk, @iClint good info guys.

    Thanks for that. I wonder why I personally haven't learned that myself. All reviews seemed to suggest "applying rear applies front" without further details which gets stuck in the mind.

    But won't (automatic) application of the front brake cause lose of feeling when rear locks up?
    Also when the front locks up, is the rear applied too?
  10. As above, I didn't think the rear brake lever did anything to the front brake.
  11. Oh, so i take it on the left grip of your bike you have or would like controls to manually advance/retard your ignition timing and control your fuel mixture just like the good old days?

    anything that makes a bike go faster and stop quicker is fine in my books.

    for starters you can't lock the wheels because it is Combined ABS.

    on my bike the braking is completely computer controlled, the computer takes the input I apply on the brake lever and combines that with all the data the bike is receiving from its sensors and then sends it to the brake callipers

    if i depress my rear brake pedal the computer takes the input i have given and immediately applys the rear brake it then if necessary uses 4 of the 12 pistons on one of the front brake callipers to apply a proportional amount of front brake to stabilise the bike.

    you cannot achieve maximum braking potential with just the rear brake so any thoughts that this is aimed at newbs who only use rear brake are just stupid.

    I'm not an engineer or completely understand all the working in the background, but all i can say is, it works, and does not effect the control of the bike any any noticeable way.

    e.g if you go into a corner hot and want to tighten up the line by applying the rear brake you can do this exactly how you would on a bike with out the CABS, that is the front brake does not engage and attempt to stand the bike up, or push the line wider.
  12. only if a steam train wasn't available.

    the ABS version tests slower round a track than the non ABS version, if
  13. Apples to apples. Neither a vfr or an st1100 is a cbr600.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Linked brakes are the result of riders demonstrating shit braking skills and over relying on the rear brake, typically panic stomping on the rear brake. This is typical of U.S. riders who in most states don't need to do compulsory basic training if over a certain age and licensed. True.

    In stopping distance brake tests, rear brake alone has the longest stopping distance. Rear brake linked to front produces a shorter stopping distance - bingo, this must be a much safer bike so linky linky. But the amount of front brake is pretty low - usually a secondary set of undersized pistons.

    There is some evidence that under heavy rear braking, application of some front will help the bike remain stable... so it's not entirely a terrible idea.

    These days with linked brakes and ABS and now brake force distribution coming onto bikes (on a single track vehicle?? Sounds like marketing PR), rider decisions are being taken away from riders.

    Mind you, on the top flight top end bikes with all the wizzgadgetry, the effect of all these aids is to make the bike much safer at higher speeds - resulting not surprisingly in higher speeds. Had a chat to a few track day junkies with latest sports missiles and they backed up what I read in some journo tests - once you get confidence in the electronics, you just focus on steering and roll on the throttle at almost any lean angle - let the bike sort out the rest - apparently very common with the latest Panigale.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. I'll bet a robot could ride it better than a human, too. Maybe we should hand the keys to them? (;))
  16. in the hands of an expert perhaps it does have a detrimental effect on lap times because the bike is carrying an extra 10kg of hardware.

    but in the hands of a normal person it could probably improve laps times due to more confidence braking into corners


    I firmly believe the above is furphy made up by technophobes.

    this technology first was developed and first appeared in competitive track use, millions spent on R&D to give the rider any edge possible, from perfect launches every time to being able to put down maximum power out of every corner (TC).

    i don't think there was a US harley rider in sight when the tech was being developed.
  17. You're entitled to your beliefs.

    You're also confusing linked brakes, combined brakes, eCABS and other variants in your thinking.

    It doesn't take millions of R+D to link some front with rear application. The first linked brakes were purely hydraulic. Nothing to do with computers.

    Carry on.
  18. I'm only making a comparison to what i know and my bike has these systems

    its better than jumping to the conclusion after reading the marketing material that linked brakes = hit the rear and on comes the front

    ummm, yes it does... you have to pay the engineers to think this stuff up

    then you gotta build a prototype

    then you gotta test it

    then you got make revisions

    then you gotta make another prototype

    more testing more prototypes

    then there is the costs to protect the IP

    your deluded if you think it costs less because some dude just plumbs some hoses and valves together and says "hey presto, i give you LINKED BRAKES!"

    even in their simplest form when it was all just hydraulics and valves, it wasn't put on the rear brake and on comes the front brake at full strength

  19. I can vouch for that, it works a treat on the road too... and like ABS, has more merit on road because of dubious road conditions. Clint seems to think anyone who doesn't like linked brakes is somehow a technophobe? The RSV4 has one of the most advanced electronics packages out there... so it seems like a strange accusation to me. Linked brakes can make a lot of sense, particularly on big heavy bikes, with long wheelbases, that frequently carry luggage or pillions, but i'd prefer BMW's system of actuating the rear when the front is applied rather than vice versa.... I DO NOT like the rate at which Honda is dumbing down their bikes because some darwin candidates buy bikes they can't ride and don't respect them.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. I'm sorry but i never said nor implied that.

    my comment about technophobes was aimed at the theory that the engineers at honda said to themselves what can we do to help US Harley riders brake better when they insist on only using the rear brake.

    if you don't want ABS, linked braked, fly by wire, TC, don't by a bike with this tech.

    the facts are though that most people aren't fully aware of how these systems work and what they actually do (myself included) and like most things with humans the unknown scares and confuses them.

    like with most if not all automotive technology it is race born and bred, what works then filters down to consumer models.

    that is one view, can you fly a fighter jet? after all virtually every system is computer controlled. the reason though is humans lack the brain capacity to think fast enough when traveling at the speed of sound, or when the jet is so agile it can turn so hard it could kill the pilot.

    the same can be said for bikes as we see bikes weigh less and capable of outputs of 150kw and more, electronic aids are going to be very necessary in order to control that power.

    if anything the faster the bike is capable of traveling the more skill will be required to ride it even with all the technological advances.