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Honda CBR250RR wont start - full scenario

Discussion in 'Technical and Troubleshooting Torque' at netrider.net.au started by bbyboy, Sep 18, 2008.

  1. first of all i want to say i have done a search on this and read those threads, but the op of those threads hasnt given a full decription for other to help solve their problem. instead of just saying it wont start and having other shoot out anything they might think could be the problem, i would like to narrow the problem down to 2 or so possibilities.

    the bike is a 1990 honda cbr250rr. i just picked it up the other day. when i went to have it a look at it the 2 days, it started fine. after i had it delivered it wouldnt start.

    when my friend and i first tried starting it up, it made the sound as if it was going to start. the sound was quite loud. we tried for about 5 minutes or so then we thought it was just low on fuel, so we went out and got ourselves 3/4 of a tank which is obviously more than enough.

    after filling the tank up we tried starting the bike up again but it wouldnt. played around with the reserve, unsure which way is which. after trying a couple of time the sound started to weaken, eventually the sound faded away. the only sound we could here were some clicking noise coming from the back, i believe it was coming from the battery area. after trying abit more that click noise became buzzing noise and soon that faded away aswell. then it made no noise.

    we tried all possible ways to start the bike. choke on, choke off, clutch in, clutch out, throttle, no throttle, roll start, 2 person roll start (me pushing the back). we mixed and match all those possibilities and still wont start. we tried looking for the kick start but i dont think this bike has one. we made sure the bike was on neautral, sometimes trying on 1st gear. and the stand is up.

    we came to the conclusion is it the battery because of the following symptoms 1) the headlights are so dim you can see the fuse without having to squint 2) the horn is so quiet you need to put your head up close to the dash to hear it 3) everytime when we press the start button the indicators on the dash dims 4) the neutral light is almost off 5) none of the blinkers work



    i gave the seller a call and he said i probably need to recharge the battery. i found my fathers battery charger which he uses for his car so im unsure if it will work, more importantly, will i blow it up infront of my face? it is a 12 volts 2.2 amps fully automatic charger. if it is usable, i dont even know how to recharge it, do i remove the seat and battery?

    so guys/girls, am i right about the battery being the problem here?
     
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  2. atm, yes it is the battery. unsure about the charger. the click sound is the sign of the battery being dead.

    u killed it by trying to start it for 5 mins straight. did u try all the different choke combinations/gear combos after or before the battery died (starter sounds slowed down and then click started)?

    what was the temp when u tried to start it to begin with? sometimes my bike has a bit of trouble starting when cold, and the combo i find works best is mid to full choke, hold the starter for a couple of engine turn-overs, then crank the throttle while the starter is still being held. then watch the revs and keep them up with the throttle if they start to drop while u have the choke out (applied). giving it more choke just seems to stall it (too rich fuel/air mix?) whereas the throttle allows more air in (i thinks? rather engine nooby) to make the burning better...

    Lobby
     
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  3. thanks lobby for the fast reply, i didnt think anyone would reply til 2moro morning.

    if the clicking noise means dead battery then we tried choke/gear/clutch/throttle combos after its dead

    starter sound as in the sound the engine makes before a bike starts? then yes, it sounded if it was going to start but obviously it didnt, it made that sound a few times before it started making the clicking sound, the clicking sound sounds similar to that of a gas stove.

    the bike has been on the back of a ute for good 20-30mins, then down to a underground garage which is quite cool there, i wouldnt say the temp down there is cold though

    ill try your combo when i can actually get the bike to turn over
     
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  4. im no expert (by ANY stretch of the imagination), and have never heard the click sound from a bike, but that seems to be the diagnosis from every other 'bike wont start/has a click sound" thread. the dimming headlights and non working indicators are a dead giveaway. running the starter motor too much will do it every time. if you take your battery into your local bike mechanic he might be nice enough to throw it on a charger for you for free, if yours isnt suitable, im not sure.

    and that combo just seems to work for me, someone with more knowldge (i.e. most of the rest of the forum) may have a better idea, in which case, go with theirs.

    and ur welcome for the quick reply comment. pay me back one day be passing it on. when u finally are on the side of being able to give advice, make some quick replies to help someone out. i got them, so i will give them. its like nodding to cagers who do the right thing by you. courtesy costs nothing :)

    Lobby (the karmic being)

    EDIT* just read u tried push starting it... that should work without a battery... there could be an underlying problem with your engine (thinking sparkies, but thats just pulling shit out of my arse) if push starting wont work. either that or ur doing it wrong. i thought i read somewhere that it is best done in 2nd gear?
     
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  5. even if you're no expert, im sure you would know more than me and thats enough.

    i accidently came to this thread http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/forum/f14/bike-isnt-starting-56856/ while searching for what battery the bikes uses. he's/her's bike had similar symptoms and the bike starts after replacing the battery.

    i hoping my my problem is as simple as his.

    how fast should the bike be travelling for a push start? my friend and i were pushing on flat ground
     
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  6. The click you can hear is the starter relay which is located near the battery. There's still enough power in the battery to activate the relay (an electrical switch), but not enough to turn over the engine.

    If the bike doesn't start reasonably quickly you will just end up flooding it. ie. the spark plugs are so wet with fuel that the spark shorts itself out.

    Leave it for a few minutes then come back and try again. The battery will take a fair bit of cranking before it goes flat, but if you feel it running out of power, leave it for a few minutes and start looking for a charger. Batteries can recover slightly if made flat this way, but not by much.
     
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  7. Forgot to say, make sure the kill switch (right hand handlebar switch) is set to "ON"

    Also set the fuel tap to PRI for a few minutes before you try again.
     
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  8. My wife has the same bike and has problems starting it. Here's the method.

    Turn fuel on.
    turn ignition on.
    Turn lights off.
    make sure kill switch is set to "run"
    pull choke out.
    no throttle.
    hit start button whilst holding the choke out. (that's if it falls back in like hers does)
    That should start it.

    Worked every time for me when she couldn't start it due to the cold over winter.

    Cheers.

    Oh BTW, yes after she flattened the battery she had exactly the same symptoms as you. Just needed a recharge and all was fine. The 2.2ah charger you have is fine but will take overnight to charge. If you want something quicker get a larger charger.
     
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  9. yep the kill switch is always on

    the cbr doesnt have PRI, just on, off and reserve. we tried starting on all of them because we were not sure which way if which.


    yep we tried that method of starting but we didnt turn the lights off. the light turns on when ignition is turn on. im unsure if there is a seperate on/off switch for the light.

    how do i recharge the battery? do i take it off the bike or do i look under the seat for the connectors and connect to it?

    sorry guys i forgot to mention, the seller said the battery is 8 months old which he said is pretty new
     
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  10. Yep, take the seat off. It has 2 phillips head screws just under the back part of the seat.

    You can leave the leads connected to the battery with your 2amp charger, it won't hurt anything. If you have a larger charger best to take the positive lead off first.
    Red to Positive, black to negative or even the subframe is ok as long as you have a good neg/earth connection, and let it charge for 3 or 4 hours. Give it another try.

    Do you have a multitester that you can check the battery voltage before you start?
     
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  11. yep but its got so many numbers on it, im unsure which to turn the dial to. how much should the battery be reading?
     
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  12. turn the dial to read volts. it should have a 20 volt range. or even 200volts. Doesn't really matter as long as it's in the range of 10 to 100 volts.
    Your dead battery may read down to around 11 volts or so.
    Normally should be around 13volts, but if it's been sitting around for a while maybe about 12.4v. That will still be enough to start it. But under that and it'll be pretty much dead and crank pretty slow. Under 11.5 it probably won't crank at all.
     
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  13. I am no expert, but i used to ride a 1990 CBR250RR, and it used to be a biatch to start if it was a bit cold, and I started using a bit of throttle to get her going, turned out i was flooding the spark plugs, making the problem worse.
    kardia's advice sounds spot on to me, that's the way i learned to get it going after a bit of advice from the service guy who cleaned my spark plugs :oops:
    (minus the kill switch, there wasn't one on my bike)
     
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  14. ok i removed the battery and tested it with the multimeter. it was reading around 11. i recharged it for around 30min with my 2.2a charger and now its reading a little over 12. ill wait for a little while then ill try that method
     
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  15. yup, while it's on the charger it should go up to around 14.5v. Leave it on for a few hours then give it a try. remember to turn your lights off, and don't use any throttle at all.
     
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  16. i didnt test it while it was charging. im scared ill zap myself since its connected to the power outlet.

    where exactly is the light switch on the cbr250? the lights seem to turn on when the ignition is on
     
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  17. The light switch is on the left hand bar. It's the top slider. all the way back lights are off, all the way forward lights are on.

    With the battery off the charger and out of the bike you should have close to 12.8 volts if it's in fairly good condition. If the battery is near new you'll get maybe 13.1 fully charged. If it's had it you'll maybe only get 11.5 or so. Pity you're not in Melb, I've got a good variable 18Ah charger that would get you going in a couple of hours.
     
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  18. yes!!! got it to start, it was definately the battery, charge it for a good 1 hour, put it back and used your starting method, kardia and chtttt brrrmmmm!!! though i couldnt find the light switch still.

    but now i got another problem on my hands. i cant get the bike on neutral. im flicking the gear up but only goes up 1 gear. when i kick it down, it doesnt feel right, it seem like its not going in. after kicking it down, again i can only flick up 1 only not matter how many times i kick down. when i say down/up i mean the direction, not the gears itself. the neutral light is not showing up at all
     
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  19. Yeh it's a PITA to get to neutral sitting still. Use your hand on the gear lever rather than your foot. It's really sensitive. What's happening is you may be going past neutral and straight into second if your a bit hard footed. Be gentle on the gear lever and you'll find neutral every time.

    When riding the easiest method is to slip it into neutral rolling to a stop instead of waiting till you're fully stopped.
    HTH
     
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  20. so im assuming that the gears goes from 1st, neutral, 2nd, 3rd and so on? ill give it a try with my hand in the morning

    i dont get it though, shouldnt 1 kick be 1 gear change? if i kick once how do i go pass neutral?

    i havent riden the bike yet. i picked it up last week and it hasnt started up til today. we tried riding it but we were not sure what gear the bike was in. it only stayed on because we has the clutch in at all times. once we let go of the clutch, its stalled
     
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