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Honda - 500cc LAMS bikes rumoured

Discussion in 'Bike Reviews, Questions and Suggestions' started by MelbourneMick, Oct 2, 2012.

  1. Was reading that Honda are looking to released two ls approved 500cc twin cylinder models. Supposedly the CBR500 and CB500.
    I am guessing this is in response to the new Ninja 300 (and also a 400 in some countries). Might even give the Suzuki GS500 market a run for its money too.

  2. Mods can you move this to General Discussion. I ballsed up posting from my phone and put it in General Marketplace
  3. The GS500 has already been killed off by emissions regs in most parts of the world - and I would be surprised if it stayed on sale in Australia after the introduction of the new regs next year.

    So not really a competitor to the GS. More likely it's aimed at being a cheap replacement for the old CB500 that was popular in Europe (particularly the UK), not because of licence restrictions but simply because people there recognise that 500cc is a perfectly reasonable capacity for everyday riding. It too was killed off by emissions regs, as presumably at the time Honda didn't see a need to try and upgrade the engine to fuel injection and fit a cat converter. Of course it also provides them with an affordable large displacement sportsbike which can be used to promote brand image in Asia.
  4. it likely has been brought in due to new licensing structures in europe.

    the new A2 license limits riders to 47hp, so expect the new honda 500c to offically make exactly that number....

    a modern 500cc twin can easily make more than that, so if that is the official figure we know it was made specifically for europe.

    makes sense, because such a 500c twin could make some pretty handy low and mid range...

    personally i'm lookign forward to it... don't be surprised if it comes in @ or around ninja 300 pricing to nullify the immense popularity of the 300.
  5. Interesting, that would certainly explain why the internet is suggesting a maximum power of 46hp. Hopefully if they are sold here they tweak the engine a little to at least bring it up to the LAMs limit (should be able to go to at least 50hp).

    Of course seems unlikely the CB400 would be continued if there was a cheaper 500cc version available. So that'll finally mark the end of small 4-cylinder bikes in this country :(.
  6. So long as it dosent get released before I sell my CB400 once off my P's in March :D
  7. To get around the enviro regulations, can't they fit PAIR valve systems, like my cruiser has?

    Seems like the motorcycle industry already has this as a cheap, patch job if they choose to use it.
  8. Not for Europe (or even the newer regs being introduced to Europe). They're based on the quantity of pollutants emitted, so diluting them down by bleeding in some fresh air won't make any difference.

    That trick only works in the US, and other places where concentration of pollutants is measured.
  9. I dont really think the release of any of those bikes will affect the sales (or resale for that matter) of CB400 in any considerable way.. The reported 500s would be built to budget, and that is what they will be targeting, the budget end of market (GS500, Ninja 300 etc.). The CB400 on the other hand is aimed at a completely different customer segment, it is a high quality bike and I think Honda will always have a place for it in their lineup.

    Those who consider the CB400 will generally not consider the 500s by and large (plus the CB400 is more powerful).
  10. For those who research their purchase thoroughly that might be true - but that's generally not the case with newbies buying their first bike brand new from a dealership.

    The CB400 is already being outsold 5 to 1 by the 250 Ninja, and 6 to 1 by the CBR250R. It's also struggling to compete with the LAMs versions of the Ducati Monster and the ER6. Yes the CB400 is a premium product - but in a market where people are generally looking for only short-term ownership. The CBR250R proves quite nicely that even a basic single cylinder will sell extremely well if you wrap it in a shiny package - even though other LAMs bikes are of a higher quality and offer more power.
  11. Yes true, but that one guy who's presently buying the CB400 will still be buying it even after the release of 500. That's what my point is.

    I will stand corrected on this one but I remember reading somewhere (perhaps bikesales) that during the 2010/11 year, CB400 was the best selling naked bike (including non-lams bikes).
  12. I believe that's the case - but the naked bike market is not very big. For the first half of this year the combined sales of the entire naked bike top ten is still less than sales of the CBR250R during the same period.

    This is why I reckon Honda is more likely to put their focus into the fully-faired 500, with a naked version being made available to fill the small demand for such bikes. The real question is if the CB400 was dropped would the people likely to buy one buy something from another manufacturer - or just buy the CB500 instead.
  13. On second thought, I guess Honda Australia could well drop the CB400 from their lineup. Because at the end of the day, that's what going to make more financial sense i.e. to offer cheap bikes and increase sales volume.

    Look at what they did to the CB1000R and the CB1300. Both were very nice bikes, and coincidentally both were nakeds too! They killed them both. Currently Honda Australia does not have a single bike that I (as a CB400 rider) would consider upgrading to because I'm not a sportsbike person and I don't like the Adventure/Tourers that they currently have on offer. You're right, it's a small niche which Honda certainly wouldn't care losing, if they did, I'm pretty sure they would have thought about those current CB400 owners who would ultimately look to upgrade, most likely to a bigger naked, a segment that they do not cater to at all.

    So if anything, I would say Honda Australia would most likely kill the CB400 too, and that would only work to appreciate its value :LOL:
  14. Quite possible it might be killed off entirely. The equivalent bikes from the other manufacturers (the Yamaha XJR400 and Suzuki Inazuma 400) have already been discontinued - suggesting that "classic" style nakeds have lost favour in Japan in favour of more modern styling, or deliberately retro styling (ie the SR400, W400, and all the 400cc cruisers).
  15. CB1100 not high revving enough? Or have they dropped it?
  16. As a learner and CB400 owner, I understand that the 400 is a premium product at a very premium price. I mean, for $10,500 I could have got something in the 600-650cc range when I got of my L's, but nothing else compared. It caters for a specialised market. Most learners want something new and cheap. I can see the logic for Honda discontinuing the CB400 in the future if cheaper more sporty looking bikes are being offered.
  17. Nah, not like the cb400. Its more of a cruiser.
  18. As far as I know, they still offer both the CB400 and the CB1300 in their local Japanese market. To me, these bikes are timeless, I think they will never lose their relevance to the right people, but their number could be tiny.

    I don't know but the CB1100 just does not do it for me (by 'me' I mean generally customers in the same segment as myself i.e. CB400 riders that have interest in naked bikes but are not old enough for the CB1100). It is more aimed at the oldish rider, maybe in 10-15 years I'll develop that liking, but not at the moment :D the CB1100R (the concept) though is one killer of a bike!
  19. the cb400 is only made at all because of the license/rego implications in japan at the time it was designed and made, which made it favourable to consumers looking at a high end product.

    you can bet your bottom dollar, that if the new cbr500 undercuts it by a fair margin and gets favourable reviews and sells, honda aus will drop the import of the cb400 as it would make little sense...

    the only reason honda had it (pre nc700) was because it offered a bigger LAMS bike cf the rest of honda's line up...

    with a fresh new 500, that is also LAMS, i see it as a tough business case to continue importing the cb400 at a price point in aus at which you can be looking at fz6n, gladius, ninja 650 etc.

    moto development is begging to develop at a much larger pace than it once was - more people are taking it up, new enviro regs are applying for the first time in many cases, and many countries are relaxing or changing rego/license rules...

    that's gunna make for pretty short model-cycles. Expect japanese manufacturers to lobby hard for the adoption of similar rules to their biggest markets to ease design and production.

  20. You say that like those bikes are an upgrade over the CB400... I have both a CB400 (now my wife's) and a Ninja 650(RL). The CB is a better bike in most respects over the ninja. In fact, the CB is more powerful (and lighter) than the ninja too while in it's restricted mode. When unrestricted the ninja is more powerful, and it does have more torque than the CB, as the CB is an i4 and the ninja is a twin.

    Ninja Pro's:
    - Taller
    - more torque
    - can be unrestricted
    - $500 cheaper

    CB400 Pro's:
    - better handling
    - super smooooooth
    - more powerful in stock configuration
    - significantly lighter
    - i4, so, more forgiving in lower rev range for new riders (power comes when you wind out)

    I just don't think it's fair to say "for that price you can get a ninja 650" making it sound like it's a better bike. It is better in some ways, but certainly not most.

    Then there's the whole style thing... CB is very retro. I had a old guy (80's) who used to race back in the day see my bike when I was on the CB and just loved it. Said that there just wasn't enough of the smaller CC classic type bikes around any more. Man, we has some amazing conversations about bikes and riding etc. That was a hoot.