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VIC Holiday road toll is pure nonsense.

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by TonyE, Jan 4, 2012.

  1. With all due respect to the families of those who have died on the roads, the whole concept of a "holiday road toll" is total garbage.

    According to TAC figures, 269 people were killed on Victorian roads in the 12 months to October.

    That equates to 0.74 deaths per day.

    According to chief traffic cop Keiran Walshe, 9 were killed in the 12 days of the holiday period.

    This equates to 0.75 deaths per day

    Yet he is bleating about how bad the holiday season is when it's no worse than the rest of the year. This will now be used as an excuse to put in double points, increased penalties and claim extra police resources.
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  2. Implying that some of them did need to happen?
  3. If Steven Conroy was one of them, then yes.
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  4. Possibly if it was someone that had a heart attack while driving you could say that it was somewhat unavoidable.
  5. Spot on TonyE - welcome to the world of grownups. It's called propaganda, or control of the masses.

    Stretch knows social engineering when he sees it.

    "Implying that some of them did need to happen?"

    No, silly! Implying that some of them will happen. Stop and take an honest look at the concept of road transport. It involves as a matter of course having dangerous idiots in flimsy overpowered vehicles racing along the road barely under any control and passing each other at closing velocities of 200 km/h plus at a distance of about 1m, and this pass happens millions of times a day. Why does it surprise anyone that one time in twenty million or thirty million, the pass goes wrong? It surprises me that things go badly wrong as rarely as they do. Same goes for corners and pedestrian crossings and intersections and turns across oncoming traffic - and forget all about overtaking!

    You can't honestly expect anybody to believe that road fatalities in a country the size of Australia - area and population and level of personal mobility - can be got down to under 50 a year, do you? Or that if we applied technical means to limit the speed of all vehicles to less than 30 km/h, that would achieve that lower road toll? Or that even if it did - which I highly doubt - it would be a price worth paying?
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  6. Then you say “many of these collisions were avoidable” not “didn't need to happen”.

    KD, no argument from me... I was having a go at the implication that some of the accidents needed to happen. Makes it sound like a Dr Who script.
  7. A good read for the holidays is a book called Road Kill.
    A mate Craig wrote it.
    He worked for a few years as an accident investigator for the police force. And the book is his memories and thoughts on this very subject. I have agreed with him pretty much all the way. He is pretty harsh. but was a plod for a long time so ha ha he is just being he.
    Anywho my thoughts.
    A Zero road toll is just not realistic no matter what the road speed is.
    But 99% of the fatalities should not happen.
    Our Attitude is what can save us or kill us more than any form of technology available or in the pipeline. And it costs nothing. Zero, zip nada. Oh sorry I did not know less than fifteen seconds of your time was worth a life.
    Thinking that it wont happen to you is as foolish as thinking you wont get aids chasing the but but without your rascal wrapped or smoking and cancer.
    It's not a lottery. Road deaths. I guess more a time and place thing.
    The worst part is you can do all the right things and still be taken out by an IDIOT.
    The first law that should be changed is the one for culpable driving. You get this and no matter what you should never hold a license again. The farkwitt that cleaned my bro up copped a $2,500 fine and six months suspension. He never even faced or apologized to the family.
    Whilst I think the penalties for slight speed infringements are way to dear. Say up to 20kph over. But for just plain reckless stupidity people should have their license taken away until they can prove they have the brains to be on the road and not endanger someone else just going about their lives.
    It needs to come from peer pressure to change an attitude. Maybe you get pinged doing thirty K over your back on L plates for three to six months. You have to be supervised....
    It has never been easier or cheaper to go racing or just do plain track days in my lifetime. The more we use these facilities the better they become. The more will be built, and finally then the idiots who come up with this crap might see the light.
    Education and attitude are the only two things that will save us from ourselves.
    We need to be brain washed on road safety long before we have the privilege of being able to be driving on one. fark me .07 lives a day ???? In each state ??? We have lost nine also in QLD. Is that acceptable ???
    How many will think I better be careful, I don't want to be the .75% person today when they get on their bike or get into their car.
    We all complain about the plods. How unfair they are. If you actually knew the rules, and it was your job to enforce them..... How long before you just got so plain bloody sick of people doing the most stupid things right in front of you. And we do.
    Every roundabout I come to some idiot indicates right and goes strait through. Which usually ends in a dick pulling contest when the lanes merge with the guy who goes on the inside thinking old mate is turning right as that's what he is saying with his blinker.
    I bet one in 5 would not know who has the right of way in a dual lane roundabout let alone a single.
    Mate if I was a plod I think I would just shoot half the idiots I pulled over. Bang ... this ones for Darwin.
    But as I cant do that. Nor can the plod except in Vic. Then I am all for getting the idiots off the road. Permanently.
    Speed is not the killer. Attitude is.
    A bad selfish attitude is lethal on the road. On a bike well. It's a lot less likely you will take someone out with you.
    In a car you have a weapon of mass destruction.
    • Like Like x 5
  8. But then they get removed from the road toll once that's established.

    The following is how fatalities are actually defined as being part of the road toll...


    Footnote 3 is particularly interesting...
  9. & a bit morbid!

    There is an asterix missing in Section 3, *if yes, death is attributed to speed.
  10. Let's get pedantic then (because 'they' are!) - by their own definition, ALL road fatalities are attributable to speed. That's no surprise, is it?

    What the safetycrats are getting away with is the misinformation that illegal speed can cause fatalities all by itself, whereas the truth is that illegal speed can only kill when coupled with another causal factor (ie. loss of control, inattention etc.). But legal speed can, too.

    The focus on illegal speed might be more convincing if they acknowledged these other factors, and if the 'illegal' aspect were not such a deceptive, moving target.
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  11. I like the concept of the big steel spike sticking out of the steering wheel,even a small bingle would result in said steel spike sticking in a bit,the bigger the mistake the deeper it goes.Slightly more consequences then what happens now.I used to know people who would brag about how many cars they had written off,plenty of dick heads out there.
  12. I know a few of them too.
    the most ridiculous is the guy who tells me how great a driver he is cos he's written off 3 cars..
  13. "Speed is not the killer. Attitude is."

    It depends on how you see things, and very much how you want others to see things. The whole Speed is the culprit and everybody should slow down thing drives me and you and everybody with a shred of common sense up the wall - but it's hard to refute.

    If no vehicle ever moved then people would not get in them, or they would die in them of old age and high blood pressure. Collisions would not happen. If a vehicle hits anything, then it was travelling too fast, because if it wasn't moving them it wouldn't have. That's not my view - but the logic of it is impossible to refute. As far as it goes - and it's a very limited statement - it's absolutely true and correct. It just ignores all other practical considerations that don't fall in line with the author's own particular agenda.

    As far as I can see, about 95 ~ 98% of all road accidents happen because of human error. In more or less every case, speed is a factor - a small one. If you enter a 30k corner at 200k then you made a massive mistake. Speed was a factor, but not the cause. The cause was stupidity.

    Human error, compounded by stupidity, attitude, inattention, distraction, substance abuse, fatigue, and lack of basic driver / rider skills are the main causes of accidents. Speed is a factor, in every accident. But I have never seen a crash yet where it was the primary cause.

    The thing is you can brow beat and intimidate sheep into going slower, which will have a small benefit in terms of road safety. But then you can fine the hell out of those who don't comply. And you can mount a campaign that brainwashes people into compliance, and that compliance has ramifications far beyond driver behaviour. That makes it a social engineering win on about 11 different levels. Why are we surprised when they "Won't somebody please think of the children?" & "Oh, the humanity!"
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  15. Only if you have a Morris Marina.
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  16. Quoted for truth.
  17. With the holiday period we see increased road user activity, particularly on country roads that lead to holiday destinations.

    So, if we're seeing a 0.001% increase in the daily casualty rate, yet there is more traffic activity, then surely the results are good (insofar as crash statistics can be "good")?

    And yes, the cops are pushing their own barrows here. And it's to be expected. Any excuse to prop themselves up as indispensible and to go for a greater grab of cash.

    However, what WE expect, or should expect from our elected leaders, is to see through this bullshit and to stomp on it.

    What I don't understand is why the media is driving this, too. And it does, every year. Short of trying to sell more newspapers, I don't know what the media expects to achieve.
  18. But the other vehicle - or whatever hit it, was moving, or else there'd be no collision. So the speed of the other vehicle was excessive. Or, the vehicle was stopped some place where it should have been moving and got hit from behind, so it's speed was still inappropriate for the conditions.
  19. Oh please.......
  20. Hey - not my point of view!

    This rubbish comes from the same people who believe that better training makes people more skilled, so they become overconfident and have more accidents - so the answer is to not train anyone to do anything, except be afraid - be very afraid! The catch-cry goes "The most skilled are the most killed!" I had a bitter and nasty argument with one of my sister-in-laws about this when I started teaching my kids to drive 2 & 3 years before they were old enough to get 'L's. See, we both 'knew' we were right.

    This is why I'm reasonably well informed about this, because I've had it bite me on the bum, and an extended family member has swallowed it all hook, line & sinker.