Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

Help with quick stopping

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by presti, May 29, 2010.

  1. Hey guys, was just riding home from work and its been drizzly today so thus i knew the roads were going to be wet/oily. On the way home it was dry and nice but i was still cautious.

    I had to come to a stop at a set of lights doing 80kph and there was a red light camera so i was going to risk it. When i did i probobly got to around 40-30kph and i felt the rear slide out to the left, now im not sure if it was oil (i looked and couldn't see anything but it was dark) or because i had too much front bias or when i hit the brakes i leaned forward a little, but do you guys have any advice for when you have to stop that quick? Should i shuffle back in the seat, use less front brake and more rear or 50/50 bias?

    Thanks guys,
  2. I would say its from to much rear brake then to much front. sounds like it locked and slid. Therefore the solution would be more front brake and less rear.

    BTW, thats an interesting way to spell your name. Welcome.
  3. too much Back Brake caused the slide out.

    Lightly load the front brakes, then apply pressure smoothly until you have enough braking force that you feel safe and you need. Use little Back brake, and don't forget to "Blip the throttle as you change down so you do not get compression lock ups.
  4. so generally speaking more front is better than more rear? What about washing out? Thankyou, its Welsh :)

    Bliping the throttle, is that like slightly reving after i shift down? yeah i just grabbed the clutch and shifted down, its a bad habbit i know :( So if i was to give it a lil gas after changing down it would stop the rear from locking cause it makes it move a lil?

    Sorry im noobish on this, i've only ever really riden dirt bikes so locking up doesn't matter nearly as much as it does on the road :(
  5. yep, more front is almost always better than more rear. there may be a few exceptions but I can't think of them right now. I think dirt bikers usually enjoy mashing the rear brake a bit though so there may be something in it. Given you slid left the washing out would have most likely due to the camber of the road. The one time I locked my rear it went right though, so *shrugs*
  6. The compression lock up(this will be rough)

    Basically, when you change down a gear when decelerating the Engine speed will need to be higher to reflect the more RPM's required to have the bike at that speed in the gear your going to change to in relation to the gear your coming from. the fact the engine is slower means the engine forces a change in speed in your tyre, causing the tyre to break traction.

    So by blipping you increase the RPM's to closer match the higher amount you need, hence giving the tyre no reason to break traction. It is more important in the wet :) and a good habit to get into.
  7. Do an intermediate riding course. They do a lot on braking. If its with HART its on their bike too!
  8. Get to:

    Saturday learner practice if you can, or post in the mentor thread
    and get someone to teach you the right way.

    The more front you use the less weight on the rear and the increased chance
    of a rear lock up.
  9. And ride to the conditions. If that involves riding slower (I know it's blasphemy) or braking earlier but lighter then that's what you do.
  10. In an emergency the usual noob reaction is to hit both brakes hard, and especially if we are also car drivers it is all too easy to stomp on the brake pedal in an attempt to stop. If you are too savage on brakes, you can lock up either front or back, but the back is the one which tends to lock up easiest.

    However, it is the front brake and not the back brake that is going to stop you, hence more front brake but not so savagely as to lock up.

    The usual way they explain using the front is "set-up and squeeze". You don't just grab a handfull, you set-up first, that is take up the slack in the system so the brakes start to operate which causes the weight to come forward and the contact patch between the front tyre and the road to increase and then progressively squeeze, harder and harder.

    The amount of rear brake you need while you are doing this will depend on your bike. Some bikes are heavier than others and have weight biased more to the back - typically tourers and cruisers and may need more rear brake than, typically sports bikes. But too much rear and it will lock and slide. On some sports bike with good tyres and an experienced rider, you can virtually get the rear off the ground without the font losing traction. In that situation your rear brake isn't going to be doing much.

    These principles remain the same in pretty much all conditions, although obviously things like wet roads and oil etc will affect how much traction you have and how hard you can use either brake before you lose traction.

    As Doug said it is one of the things we practice as Sat morning practice if you can get along. Also there is plenty of discussion of this here by people who know much more than me. Try searching Emergency Braking or E-braking.

    And not what you asked but in case any noobs think this means always use the front brake. You use the rear brake as the main stopping power when you are doing low speed (that is about walking speed) manouvering.
  11. Note: not having a go at you OP.

    I can't believe you weren't taught about which brake to use in the learners test. our instructors were VERY clear in the fact that the rear brake does basically nothing... is relatively easy to lock up and that the front brake is the one that does most of your braking.
  12. Thankyou, i play baseball on Saturdays but when we have a free weekend i will try my best to pop down if not it will have to wait till spring/summer.
    I can see that the rear disc is smaller (not to mention there is only one v's the front having 2) so i knew hte front was a main brake but coming from dirt bikes and especially mountain bikes we used the rear ALOT but that is totally different environment, its a habbit i have to get rid of.

    Thanks for all your help guys i really appreicate it :)
  13. Spot on Grey!.

    OP....read this again and take it in...Between the lines there is a bigger message.

    Build a strong and close relationship with your FRONT brake. The rear in most cases in a quick stop or emergency, can be next to useless.
    You need to practice hitting the front brake HARD (squeeze a little intially, then pour it on. In both wet and dry conditions...you need to "feel" the signs of your front tyre about to lose traction. In the dry, it makes a certain noise for instance...in the wet, you get no noise so you have to take a "touchy-feely approach....No sudden moves and leave extra space so you can ease the brakes on (front). You can practice this stuff in your local supermarket car park etc... and should! - all through your riding career, revisit carparks to keep your braking skill, sharp!

    Go meet the guys if you can, they will help you heaps, but practice yourself in the meantime.

    And remember - the back brake is a tool in your toolbox. It is incredibly useful and the brake of choice for less than 20k speeds, but the wrong tool for quick or emergency braking - THAT'S when you go for the other and best tool at your disposal - the FRONT brake.

    Tip...Under hard braking or emergency stops, you must shift always your arsk back in the seat, to help keep the weight distribution more helpful to the bike while it is trying it's best to stop you.

  14. Well said, Grey and Raven. :)
  15. Thanks Grey and Raven i really appreciate it. i think i will go down to the local supermarket tomorrow night and give it a go, should be fun and ill learn heaps.

    i will try and make it down to the newbie rides saturday when i can but i have baseball :(
  16. No worries matey...the whole point of having forums like this is so that riders like yourself can feel free to ask questions and get experienced advice to help you progress.
    A some point...you'll be on a forum, chatting with a bloke that's got a problem you know the answer to - then it'll be YOUR turn to help them out out, and so it goes. :)

  17. Presti, if you are going to practice, start from a slow pace say about 20kph do a few at that speed and try to reduce your stopping distance each time. When you have done a few do it from a bit faster. Gradually build to normal riding speed but doing a few stops at each speed as you build up.

    Ideally the repeated practice teaches your muscles to remember the two stage set up and squeeze process so that in a real emergency they do it automatically rather than just slamming on hard.
  18. Also, try to practice checking your mirrors at the same time. (I think that's what they told us at the Ls course).

  19. My advice...always slow down when approaching intersections, this way, if it goes orange in that awkward spot where you could maybe get through and maybe brake in time...with a camera there, then you can do so from 60-70km an hour instead of 80-85. When you pass that point of not stopping, speed up back to your original speed and say give the finger to the camera.
  20. Definately practice emegency stops in a quiet spot and gradually increase your speed. Try to focus on not locking up the front or rear. You will stop shorter and in control. Learn to trust the front brake. Like the others have said, it provides pretty much all your stopping power at speed.

    Here is the interesting bit...you should be able to emergency brake from any speed. No good just being able to brake from 50kmph if you constantly ride at 110kmph. The chance of you needing to emergency brake increases the faster you are going. You will eventually need to practice braking from 100kmph plus..don't do this until you've mastered 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100 though please!!

    When on the road and in traffic, definately practice all the time avoiding the need to stop quickly. Leave space, anticipate the traffic, prepare to stop at lights if need be in a controlled way. If you can stay out of situations requiring an emergency brake that is the best outcome.

    If you need to use emergency braking often in your riding, more than once a year in my book is often, you are either not riding safely, not riding within your ability level, not riding to the conditions, not anticipating, not scanning, using poor roadcraft or are not concentrating (or a combination of any/all the above).

    Not sure I agree with looking in the mirrors during an emergency stop for a couple of reasons.
    1 - you should be spending 100% of your mental and physical effort in controlling the brakes, bike and avoiding the object.
    2 - you should know exactly what is behind you at all times anyway as you've been scanning your mirrors right8-[

    Once stopped, check the mirrors and be prepared to move out of the way of the car performing an emergency stop behind you.